Let's talk about Soraka

First Riot Post
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I Will Be Hokage

Senior Member

09-10-2013

All the qq comes from cry babies that do not play these champs well or often.

Soraka is fine and still viable, do not change her.

Sion is fine and MORE than viable, do not change him.

GP is fine and MORE than viable, do not change him.

Can we focus our energy and qq towards actual things that need it? Thanks.


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Aloy

Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Your argument is why we need supports that can protect allies, and some type of health recovery mechanics need to exist so that fall-backs patterns can occur against reckless and aggressive opponents. On that, we agree.

I'm saying there's no one who does that by healing as their primary contribution to the team that's healthy. I never doubt that people like healers (I had an 80 Resto Druid in WotLK for quite awhile myself) - that's not a contention point - I'm saying it causes harm to games, much based on the examples we've seen in LoL, WoW, TF2, any MMO ever, and plenty of other games I'm forgetting.

And with Leagues's focus on interaction as opposed to winning at setup, having it be a weird counter but still cause poor gameplay is not an approach I'd like for League.

i completely agree with this. The healer counter gameplay is for the players that make mistakes constantly. Its how i teach newcomers how to play. This style of gameplay has almost no place in a truly competitive scene


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Yaddar

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
My assertion is the damage fulfilling that fantasy causes does more harm than good. I understand the desirability of a healer and the psychology behind playing one - it's a strong fantasy - it's just not worth the cost to the game to make it good and work.
My point is, just dont sacrifice the identity and psicological satisfaction behind playing a champion in exchange of "making it work within the mechanics of the game"

mechanics are just that, mechanics... landing a skillshot is fun.. but it something that can easily be applied into the game... but identity, on the other hand (and the satisfaction behind playing a fantastic character) is WAY HARDER to come by.

if landing skillshots is fun, Ezreal should be the most fun champion on League of Legends.. and I think it's not the case. People who follow Ezreal do so because both the playstile/utility and the fantasy behind playing him.

you can polish or fix a champion as long as you don't take away the identity and the feeling of playing it.

For example, Lee sin is considered fun and appealing overall... I just dont like his playstyle and his personality don't appeal much to me.

mechanics can be fun, identity can be fun.. but I'd not sacrifice identity in favor of mechanics, because people follow LoL the characters and their fantasies... while the mechanics can be found in any other MOBA.


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PigCheese

Recruiter

09-10-2013

who knows mayby you could make her silence and her heal a skill shot (how troll would it be if a missed skill shot could heal the enemy.) and then her Q could be like a mini stun or a mini slow or something. Then mayby the ultimate could be something like a global type like how it is now but you can target a specific champ somewhere and then and an area around that champ you target gets healed (mayby enemies included) and damage output gets increased by a certain percentage by both ally and enemy champions. Mayby even armor and resists or even cooldowns. This could make for some intresting plays I think.


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Dryad Soraka

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh - I DO have a dedicated healer design I want to prototype, but it's definitely not for the MMO healer player archetype :P
Please prototype it!


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Absolute 42

Senior Member

09-10-2013

I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.

The problem with Soraka is that her defensive abilities are poorly designed from a counterplay standpoint.

She has 3 defensive abilities.

1.) Heal. The heal is point-and-click, instant cast, and cannot be stopped by the enemy team (without a silence). The only gates are cooldown and mana. If this were an offensive ability, it would be considered poor design.

2.) Silence/Mana Source. Again, point-and-click, instant cast, cannot be stopped. Same problems as #1.

3.) Team heal. Instant cast, cannot be stopped by enemy team (see a pattern here?). This one I'm actually fine with, since it's her ultimate and it's gated by cooldown and being an ultimate. There's the most play here because it affects the entire team.

But what if her heal had dynamic counterplay? It could be on a visible time delay, or it could require a skillshot to hit the enemy to trigger the heal, or any number of things. Your creativity is the limit.

What if her silence/mana gain had counterplay? Again, creativity is the limit.

The point is: a dedicated healer doesn't seem to be the problem. The real problem is the lack of dynamic interaction when facing a Soraka.


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Luke OrbwaIker

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh - I DO have a dedicated healer design I want to prototype, but it's definitely not for the MMO healer player archetype :P

Morello. Talk to me about this. Please. I want to learn how to design/balance/do riot stuff/get a job at riot.


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
I'm saying it causes harm to games, much based on the examples we've seen in LoL, WoW, TF2, any MMO ever, and plenty of other games I'm forgetting.
I don't see what "harm" it does to those games. Is it just because having a healer is mandatory? Having a healing class be mandatory in a game that only has a handful of classes to choose from isn't bad. It would be bad for LoL because there are supposed to be 115 champions to choose from, but options in WoW and TF2 are already limited by the number of classes that even exist.


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Aloy

Member

09-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Oh - I DO have a dedicated healer design I want to prototype, but it's definitely not for the MMO healer player archetype :P

There will be a new healer support. You heard it here first folks


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PodunkTheMighty

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Senior Member

09-10-2013

The main thing I have taken away from this thread is that what I've always wanted in a support is someone with a friendly-targetable cleanse spell.