Morello: "we dont want to nerf big staple line up champs before worlds"

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Häßlich

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Kassadin: Too strong, but because he's so feast/famine. Needs some big work, but I'm at a loss on this one.

Zed: A bit too strong, but want to see longer term effects of previous nerfs. Not against more.

Ahri: Solid - pretty close, but popular right now.

Galio: Tough to make room for in a team, but doesn't have enough levers to balance. Needs light rework.

Taric: Same as above.

Ziggs: I think great in lane, does ??? late game in teamfights.
RE: Zed
Take this for what it's worth (just an opinion), but I don't think Zed is overpowered at all. However, I do this his ult is. Retuning him should be as simple as nerfing his ult a fair bit and buffing the rest of his kit a little.

RE: Ziggs
His job is similar to Orianna's or Lux's. Poke enemies pre-team fight. Nuke them as hard as possible mid-team fight. If they are still alive, mop up whoever is alive post-team fight. His range and damage is good, so as long as he plays to his strengths, he should win out against anything that doesn't directly counter him (jumpy/bursty champs that are hard to peel).


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Soiyeruda

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Overall, I feel like the wrong places are being hit. Zac's nerfs have almost primarily been focused on trying to make it harder to get his blobs when I feel like instead of trying to find tune this, they could just play around with the cooldowns and the passive heal.

Specifically, nerfing his synergy with items like Ancient Golem, Locket, and Spirit Visage (these items alone grant him 40% cdr and the heal buff, which means he heals more faster) would be effective enough.

Elastic Slingshot cooldown from 24/21/18/15/12 to 26/23/20/17/14
Passive's heal reduced from 4% Maximum health to 3% maximum health

Relatively minor nerfs that hit what I feel is most problematic about Zac.

If anything, I think I'm more worried about Elise and Zed dominating the pick/ban rates. Zed in particular because I feel like AD assassins have never been in a balanced position.


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EyeOfTheAzure

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by margalolwut View Post
Speaking of nerfs.. don't you think it is counter productive to the "meta" that some champs are nerfed into oblivion and never see the competitive day light again? Olaf, Darius, Jayce (to a certain extent), Irelia, Jax, come to mind.

Is the "balance team" aware of this? Is it on your radar at all?

My main concern here is that there are 100+ champs, but only 20-30 are actually used in competitive play. Does this concern you or does the balance team not even think of this?
Jax is very very strong right now. Corki is also strong, Irelia too..Shyvana.. The new trinity force made way more champions strong.


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Morello

Lead Designer

09-09-2013
11 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
Well i was referring to all in AD assassins, things like Talon, Pantheon, Xin Zhao, Shaco. Not Champions literally designed to circumvent the weaknesses of their fore fathers.

As far as the ranged ADC problem is concerned, i don't actually consider it a problem (i'm one of the few people who actually consider them balanced.) I don't even know why you brought it up, i was referring to Melee carries, things like Tryndamere, Irelia, Fiora, Yi, Darius. Things that can carry by doing a lot of damage.

Yes, i can completely comprehend it happens in trends, what i can't comprehend is why it takes so long to actually fix glaring issues, that people are aware of, i don't mean champions that are overpowered. People have been complaining about Mobility Creep for about 2 years now, but you still continue to release incredibly mobile champions. You completely changed how resistances were calculated, but continue to release percent health damage, which is damn hard to build against. These are glaring issues that continue to get worse.

Of course player skill effects how the game is played, i don't get your argument? I don't understand it cause i'm not a designer, is this basically what you are saying? How about this, gimme a chance, let me redesign warwick, or pantheon's ultimate, i'll do it for free.
I just want this conversation more than the angry one - and I'm fine with critiques, but the rage is just noise in a sea of more noise. This, however, can be constructive!

Mobility Creep has occurred, but I think this is spoken about as the problem as opposed to a symptom. The problem, in this case, is where we had champions not giving up anything when they contained mobility. This was especially rampant in 2011, but the problem is rarely the mobility itself and more the underlying design problems that lead to problematic mobility.

One example is how Vi's ultimate was talked about a lot as "mobility creep." I think the real problems occur there when there's no meaningful recourse to that move, her being able to move far is fine - provided than when she does, you have actions that make sense to deal with her. Some of this is the CC immunity, some of this is her raw brawling power when she gets there. If some cost is paid, actually or strategically, then the skill can avoid this pitfall.

So, I think Mobility Creep isn't a major issue - mobility tends to create interesting and dynamic fights and is fun to use - but the issue, like true damage, % HP damage and other mechanics we've done this with, is in how and where it is used.

I edited my post, but in the initial barrage of "there's Morello - get him!" from me returning to the forums, I read yours too quickly. I did say melee ADC would be -better- this season, and they are, but I also claimed I didn't think Season 3 would fully solve the problem. I think that's been pretty accurate overall.

Now, let's put this thread on a good note; let me tell you two must-haves for Season 4 to ship successfully in my mind;

We're going to significantly improve, and ultimately fix, jungle and support gold flow. I feel this is one of the most painful areas of League, and one that can be fixed. A lot of the satisfaction in League is growing in power over time, getting items, and transitioning from early to late game with items. It's definitely a problem that 2/5 of players don't get to do this.

Season 4 changes will address this problem, and very likely throw balance into a tailspin for preseason. Eggs, omelettes, etc. We'll work hard to get that fleshed out and tuned before S4 starts properly.

Wards and the map vision system need to be overhauled. This is part-and-parcel with the above as Support gold largely suffers due to ward gold burden, but there are a multitude of other problems like snowballing, few real interesting ward decision-making opportunities, and few people involved with the vision game. Details have to wait, but the new system will address these issues.


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Morello

Lead Designer

09-09-2013
12 of 18 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by margalolwut View Post
Speaking of nerfs.. don't you think it is counter productive to the "meta" that some champs are nerfed into oblivion and never see the competitive day light again? Olaf, Darius, Jayce (to a certain extent), Irelia, Jax, come to mind.

Is the "balance team" aware of this? Is it on your radar at all?

My main concern here is that there are 100+ champs, but only 20-30 are actually used in competitive play. Does this concern you or does the balance team not even think of this?
It is when we can't simply buff them to be good or make small changes. Fighters (and why CertainlyT is focused on them!) are the biggest culprits of this, and tend to make this list more than others. Much of this is based around the schizophrenic goals and role fulfillment on fighters (which typically comes with low counter-play) and them deriving value from nothing but raw power. Not only aware, but one of our biggest open sores that's very hard to solve without a LOT of disruption.


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Morior Invictis

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Morello, what do you have to say about the current state of Tryndamere?


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Brightinly

Senior Member

09-09-2013

And here I am just waiting for him to answer about what's going to happen to soraka.


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Cryswar

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Now, let's put this thread on a good note; let me tell you two must-haves for Season 4 to ship successfully in my mind;

We're going to significantly improve, and ultimately fix, jungle and support gold flow. I feel this is one of the most painful areas of League, and one that can be fixed. A lot of the satisfaction in League is growing in power over time, getting items, and transitioning from early to late game with items. It's definitely a problem that 2/5 of players don't get to do this.

Season 4 changes will address this problem, and very likely throw balance into a tailspin for preseason. Eggs, omelettes, etc. We'll work hard to get that fleshed out and tuned before S4 starts properly.

Wards and the map vision system need to be overhauled. This is part-and-parcel with the above as Support gold largely suffers due to ward gold burden, but there are a multitude of other problems like snowballing, few real interesting ward decision-making opportunities, and few people involved with the vision game. Details have to wait, but the new system will address these issues.
You are my favorite person in the world right now.

-Singed, someone who has spent most of their League pvp career as a support or in the jungle


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The Scyphozoa

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We're going to significantly improve, and ultimately fix, jungle and support gold flow.
Well, as someone who plays support (in normals) a lot, I typically feel satisfied with my gold if we get so much as one kill in bot or one dragon, so I guess while this is okay for me it isn't a prio...
Quote:
Wards and the map vision system need to be overhauled.
SWEET SEMEN OF BABY JESUS! YES! Being hidden is FUN! Warding everything possible is just too powerful right now, so I welcome this change.


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

09-09-2013

Morello, I'm happy you guys are doing a support/jungle/ward overhaul.

These are 3 of the main issues that I feel have hindered the game this season. The other is well...low variety of pool of champions in high elo, false variety when it comes to choosing your lane...

Morello, I know I'm outspoken about the game. You might've seen my rants regarding these things(You collectively, as in Riot), but...I still have faith in you.