A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Nielspeterdejong

Senior Member

09-06-2013

So... Any chance the empowered W will give a shield instead of another non-stacking Armor/MR buff?


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Troy242621

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Scarizard, I'd just like to take the time to think you. I think I speak for all Rengar fans when I say, I appreciate how you keep us updated on our favorite cat. I was relieved when you stated he could STILL be built as an assassin and not a bruiser, and STILL be effective. I was very worried you'd weaken Assassin Rengar into in-viability.

Please, continue to keep us updated. This is the kind of thing that seperates Riot from other developers. Constant community interaction. From a customer perspective, it really does make me feel more appreciated.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

09-06-2013
67 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
Scarizard, I'd just like to take the time to think you. I think I speak for all Rengar fans when I say, I appreciate how you keep us updated on our favorite cat. I was relieved when you stated he could STILL be built as an assassin and not a bruiser, and STILL be effective. I was very worried you'd weaken Assassin Rengar into in-viability.

Please, continue to keep us updated. This is the kind of thing that seperates Riot from other developers. Constant community interaction. From a customer perspective, it really does make me feel more appreciated.
No worries, dude. I actually main assassins and fighters, so Rengar has always been a really attractive champion to me - i just appreciate that assassins are a class that requires finesse and nuance, as well as a good sense of game knowledge, situational awareness, and the ability to be opportunistic. Things like this draw me to the Class as a whole, and things like Rengar's 500% AD triple-q-in-less-than-a-second doesn't make me feel clever, or like i'm outplaying anyone - it just makes me feel like i'm subverting gameplay in a way that makes our game more dry as a whole.

Naturally i'm giga-biased, but this version of Rengar makes me feel like i have options and real choices, and that when i pull off stealth ganks in a lane or shrouding mid-fight and surprising people i've gotten a high degree of satisfaction and feel really accomplished. Even the Q-Train (Q2 giving 3 Ferocity) makes me feel like i have a planned 'combo' similar to Ryze (Which spell do i begin with and then end with to get the most Ferocity Spells?) that i think is fun and lets me press a bunch of buttons.

tl;dr Assassin Rengar being 'unviable' was never a goal, just the way that he was executing his play felt unfair and unfulfilling.

BONUS ROUND:

So, i'm redoing the numbers on Bonetooth atm. Thinking of adding a secondary passive to make it more attractive to Rengar players in lane, while also having synergy with Jungle.

How does this sound?

PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?


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Chaosos

Senior Member

09-06-2013

This seems like it risks making rengar more snowbally in lane, which I get is the play pattern bonetooth makes but it is something to consider.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?
I'm picturing the sweet plays you could make by jumping in, stealing Dragon, and regaining enough HP from it to escape or get a kill. I like it. I think, to fit with Rengar's theme, it should gain something like 1x on minions and small monsters, 3x on Big Monsters, and 5x on Champions and Epic Monsters (Dragon, Baron, and Vilemaw).


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Vivi R66

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
BONUS ROUND:

So, i'm redoing the numbers on Bonetooth atm. Thinking of adding a secondary passive to make it more attractive to Rengar players in lane, while also having synergy with Jungle.

How does this sound?

PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?

I love it , even if the number aint too big, that definitivelly makes it worth buying , the main issue of BTN on Live is that jungle Rengar feels gold starved and the item since last nerfs doesnt feel worth it, that would deff fix it!


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X1zz3l

Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

So i don't know what the number would be, but the idea is that it gives him a minor level of sustain that synergizes with last-hitting (minion kills could give you a small amount of sustain, with Siege Minions giving you the Significant bonus, ala Thresh/Nasus/Veigar collection games) while also being a useful mitigation in the jungle - esp on camps like Wraiths where you'd likely outheal the little guys.

Thoughts?
Sound really good and fits the bloodthirsty theme :P
wait a second...
You mad genious spoiled us in your previous post o.O
Smart Scarizard is smart, you may even evolve into mega Scarizard soon!
The problem with that however, is finding a good number that isn't overpowered earlygame and yet useful later into the game as I assume you won't let it scale per level or will you?

On a sidenote, did you also think about giving Rengar a little bit more sticking power without bushes? Like, on X stacks with Bonetooth Necklace:
"When Rengar hits an enemy with one of his skills, he is granted 30 movementspeed for 1.5 seconds"
Or sth similar


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emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

09-06-2013

That sounds almost too good. You said you didn't want to force people into buying Bonetooth, and that sounds like what this does. Now that said, I have been wanting an item that does this for ever as a Doran's, and so am probably putting way more value on it than it actually has.


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cocacolalips

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

PASSIVE: Heals X amount on kill. On champion or significant minion/monster, the Heal is multiplied (by maybe 3 or 5, whichever makes sense and is significant.)

Thoughts?
Evelynn had that exact passive where she would heal after a kill before her rework.
You gotta be careful HA, that's potentially really strong.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

09-06-2013

I don't know much about Rengar in lane, but from a Jungle perspective, it certainly wouldn't hurt. His jungle sustain can be pretty painful at times, particularly early on. Really limits his choices sometimes, since he may not have enough health to gank. I feel like the Ebola change will probably really help his jungling. Perhaps it will help him gank mid lane, since the mid lane bushes exist for the sole purpose of teasing the lion.