Skarner, I miss your kind

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Jammain

Junior Member

09-06-2013

I feel like the new Skarner seems nice with the ranged stun, but overall I think the old one seems more appealing at least in my opinion. That fact that he is losing his e heal and the slow on his q makes me hesitant about the new version. The e was useful for me just because when I do have the blue buff I can use it to help clear and heal me up while my shield is taking damage. I like some of the changes you want to do but 1. I think if I had a choice between the two Skarners, I would take the current Skarner and 2. Even if you go with the new Skarner, I'm not convinced it will make players choose him more often and may lose players who play him now. I actually like the fact that he is not popular it kinda seems to fit is lore ironically. A alternative is to make his e worth investing in early on or fixing, as previously mentioned, his mana dilemma. WARNING: this is just my opinion. I just don't want to end up hating my favorite scuttling champ


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Skarquesa

Junior Member

09-06-2013

"The idea behind Skarner is to get on people, stay on them, and really capture that inevitability of being run down by a predatory creature. Additionally, we wanted to avoid an instant gap closing mechanic so there's appropriate counter-play." -Morello

Just read this from wikipedia. With the new changes, wouldn't you be removing the original idea behind Skarner?


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Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarquesa View Post
"The idea behind Skarner is to get on people, stay on them, and really capture that inevitability of being run down by a predatory creature. Additionally, we wanted to avoid an instant gap closing mechanic so there's appropriate counter-play." -Morello

Just read this from wikipedia. With the new changes, wouldn't you be removing the original idea behind Skarner?
Trust me, they don't care. They are just doing whatever they want with him and then once it fails they will be all "well i don't get it! Why do people like this new version EVEN LESS?!"


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

09-06-2013
28 of 35 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarquesa View Post
"The idea behind Skarner is to get on people, stay on them, and really capture that inevitability of being run down by a predatory creature. Additionally, we wanted to avoid an instant gap closing mechanic so there's appropriate counter-play." -Morello

Just read this from wikipedia. With the new changes, wouldn't you be removing the original idea behind Skarner?
This is a really great quote from Morello that is very important to Skarner's identity. The new kit still accomplishes those goals just in a different way. Skarner is able to more effectively get on to targets with the new E, and with the improved W he has an easier time keeping up with his targets. The target has a little more freedom of movement than before but Skarner is still able to maintain his effective range.


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doublelift fg

Senior Member

09-06-2013

so hybrid skarner will be viable scruffy?


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Rush Hour

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceplosion View Post
You rang?


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Rush Hour

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This is a really great quote from Morello that is very important to Skarner's identity. The new kit still accomplishes those goals just in a different way. Skarner is able to more effectively get on to targets with the new E, and with the improved W he has an easier time keeping up with his targets. The target has a little more freedom of movement than before but Skarner is still able to maintain his effective range.
Was there ever any consideration in making his ult a longer range skillshot?


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LesLlamas

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This is a really great quote from Morello that is very important to Skarner's identity. The new kit still accomplishes those goals just in a different way. Skarner is able to more effectively get on to targets with the new E, and with the improved W he has an easier time keeping up with his targets. The target has a little more freedom of movement than before but Skarner is still able to maintain his effective range.
But you've created an a conditional gap-closing mechanic by making his slow a skillshot :\.

Gap closing mechanics aren't limited to propelling your own champion--Glitterlance is a gapcloser too. And, except for the pix part of Glitterlance, his new E is indistinguishable in design from that ability. I don't care if for some reason you were to decide to nerf Skarner--I care that he's not the same champion anymore, and that his champion design was NEVER a problem. His skills, outside of his ult, have become homogenized with others.

How is Q supposed to feel much different than Hecarim's rampage?

Before you couldn't find any skill that was even remotely similar to Crystal Slash. It was unique and awesome, and had appropriate counterplay within the champion's kit.

How is W supposed to feel much different than Hecarim's E?

What made Skarner's shield cool was that it was his "I'm going to stand up to you and fight" ability. I'm going to get a shield that gives me the ability to attack faster and get my shield back quicker if you don't displace me! That's gone.

How is E supposed to feel much different than Lulu's glitterlance?

Ranged skillshot slow. You're taking the power of his kit and moving it onto such a generic ability design. Also, even though this probably makes him stronger and able to get targets more easily, why is this a good thing???? The greatest piece of counterplay to Skarner has always been about keeping him at range.


The community OVERWHELMINGLY responded that both the most FUN and the most FRUSTRATING things about playing AS/AGAINST him were both ULTING and GETTING ulted. I sincerely believe that you've made getting ults off easier, which may be strong, but it removes the SATISFACTION of overcoming difficulties to grab a high priority target, and INCREASES FRUSTRATION of an enemy because now Skarner can throw out a low CD skillshot, miss, and then just throw one out in another ~8 seconds. Before you had to burn W, Shurelia's, maybe flash or ghost to get past tight defenses. When it works, it feels great. With the new kit, what's so special about hitting a skillshot that comes up every 10 seconds? Where's the reward in that?



EDIT: ADDITIONALLY you were one of the ONLY respondents to your own questions that identified the Permaslow as being the frustrating part of his kit to play against. I feel as though you've tunnelvisioned into your own beliefs here, as EVERY iteration of his kit that you've presented has found some way to get rid of this mechanic. Read my last paragraph. Your current iteration is going to exacerbate frustrations of playing against.

Also, you keep saying "it feels stronger in playtests". We. Do. Not. Doubt. This. We doubt that he feels more fun to select for a game. A champion with 4 point and click 1.0 AP ratio nukes is going to be an insanely strong mage--but a really boring one. Strength is not indicative of a good design. Just look at AP Yi.


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hebroohammr

Senior Member

09-06-2013

So great to see such conversation with reds here. Really nice to see them take player feedback and work with it. Keep up the good work.


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LesLlamas

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by hebroohammr View Post
So great to see such conversation with reds here. Really nice to see them take player feedback and work with it. Keep up the good work.
Read my post above yours. This is where they've been failing.