Why No Champion Needs a Rework

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Feo Leche

Senior Member

09-05-2013

I swear I think I've seen someone make the argument that a champion needs a rework with every single champ at least once. I honestly don't think any champ needs it.
You may say, "Well, then how come the pros don't play Soraka?" (Or other champs that "don't fit in the meta") This is because there needs to be champions at every skill level for people who are learning.
You might say, "Well what about balance?" I think that a game like this can never be totally balanced, and if you really feel like a champion is weak or lacking, then don't play him.
I know you might feel attached to the visual design of a certain champ, but honestly I think the point of this game is to play an entire roster of different champs, not just one specific theme.

So in the end my solution is simple: Just try out the other champions.
Maybe you don't like Garen because he offers no crowd control. Then play Darius.
Maybe you don't like Darius because he's Darius. Then play... I don't know... Heimerdinger?
And if you don't like Heimerdinger, well, you certainly are entitled to stupid opinions.


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Sentinel Zues

Member

09-05-2013

I strongly disagree with this post, for one reworks are not because a champion is "op", they are done because either a champions visual effects are beginning to fall off and look old, or they can't fit the current meta. An example for a champion I would LOVE to see reworked right now is Poppy. If you've ever played Poppy, you would know exactly what I'm talking about. She is incredibly easy to shut down in lane, and even if she gets a lead, it's still incredibly easy to make a comeback. She's squishy early game and has way too small of a mana pool for her abilties, she has little cc, and has virtually no poke unless you really jump on the person. The only strong point she has is the late game, the biggest problem is just GETTING there. She has really fallen off on the meta specificly because new champions keep coming out, and these champions, along with most in the league, are a lot stronger than her. This is the reason RIOT reworks and relaunches champions.

If you have never played poppy before, try 3 games of her, then you will say she doesn't fit the meta

The whole reason for reworks are because every single champion needs to be playable and fun.


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soulshot268

Senior Member

09-05-2013

I agree with not total reworks (cough,cough karma). but reworking the visuals and maybe lightly buffing them is good like tweaking poppy's Q into something ranged and moving around her stats. that kind of rework is amazing. what they shouldent do is completely change a champion (cough,cough karma)


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CerealBoxOfDoom

Senior Member

09-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feo Leche View Post
I swear I think I've seen someone make the argument that a champion needs a rework with every single champ at least once. I honestly don't think any champ needs it.
You may say, "Well, then how come the pros don't play Soraka?" (Or other champs that "don't fit in the meta") This is because there needs to be champions at every skill level for people who are learning.
You might say, "Well what about balance?" I think that a game like this can never be totally balanced, and if you really feel like a champion is weak or lacking, then don't play him.
I know you might feel attached to the visual design of a certain champ, but honestly I think the point of this game is to play an entire roster of different champs, not just one specific theme.

So in the end my solution is simple: Just try out the other champions.
Maybe you don't like Garen because he offers no crowd control. Then play Darius.
Maybe you don't like Darius because he's Darius. Then play... I don't know... Heimerdinger?
And if you don't like Heimerdinger, well, you certainly are entitled to stupid opinions.
what makes darius different from heimerdinger? Are they both healthy concepts?


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wolfax

Senior Member

09-05-2013

Do you honestly think Heim is able to be strong at any skill level? Because he can't. The reason he is so weak is because Riot intentionally took his kit and nose dived it because they realized that there was no way to successfully balance the thing. Same with Olaf. Either he is OP because he ignores CC and can out trade almost every champion or he is so weak there is no reason to play him.

What about Sion as well. His kit is all over the place. 2 spells are huge AoE spells that want him to build AP and the other 2 want him to build tons of AD. He also doesn't scale well hybridly like Kayle or Jax. He needs to build AP and only get half his kit or build AD and get half his kit.

Your logic is don't play them if they're weak, but if someone bought the champion they expect a semi-decent champion that can do their job well. Whatever that may be. When those people who bought Olaf, because he was good and then destroyed with nerfs because he was too dominant and no numbers changes would help, or any champion like him get screwed for buying that champion get angry at Riot and are less likely to buy from Riot ever again. That is Riot's last wish, so they want to keep the customers happy.

Also, a lot of reworks are visual updates. Garen was a "rework" by Riot's definition.


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Artist Bogrim

Senior Member

09-05-2013

Some champions just have a really binary design. For example, the old Master Yi could build ability power, stay outside of range, poke and farm for ridiculous amounts without ever having to engage in the lane, heal for ridiculous amounts and pretty much penta kill with Alpha Strike spam once sufficiently fed.


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PerfidiousAlbion

Senior Member

09-05-2013

Reworks are for champions that need buffing but have been already determined to have mechanics the reds find problematic. They can`t buff them while those mechanics are going to cause problems and they can`t leave them clearly weak for extended periods of time.

So long as Heimer can farm without even being in the lane and has 1000 auto targeting harass he can`t have good ratios or turrets that are worth a damn in a teamfight.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

09-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfidiousAlbion View Post
Reworks are for champions that need buffing but have been already determined to have mechanics the reds find problematic. They can`t buff them while those mechanics are going to cause problems and they can`t leave them clearly weak for extended periods of time.

So long as Heimer can farm without even being in the lane and has 1000 auto targeting harass he can`t have good ratios or turrets that are worth a damn in a teamfight.
Occasionally, it's also to nerf a viable champion like Yorick


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Rekitsu

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Reworks are very important to this game. Also a good portion of season 1 champs either have been, or will soon be, reworked in order to fit into the way the game as evolved better. This is almost an entirely different game from when it began. Much has changed, runes, masteries, the map, many champions, minions, towers, items, baron, dragon, nuetral champs in general. Basically, everything in the game has changed, and thus the champions must also adapt in order to remain balanced.

Also, your right. True balance can never be achieved in a game like this. There will always be stronger or weaker champs. However, that doesn't mean they shouldn't do their best to keep balance as close as possible. If they quit caring entirely we'd end up with another DoTA, which riot is trying to avoid so they can keep league friendly to players new this genre of game.


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lemonpartyfan0

Senior Member

09-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel Zues View Post
I strongly disagree with this post, for one reworks are not because a champion is "op", they are done because either a champions visual effects are beginning to fall off and look old, or they can't fit the current meta. An example for a champion I would LOVE to see reworked right now is Poppy. If you've ever played Poppy, you would know exactly what I'm talking about. She is incredibly easy to shut down in lane, and even if she gets a lead, it's still incredibly easy to make a comeback. She's squishy early game and has way too small of a mana pool for her abilties, she has little cc, and has virtually no poke unless you really jump on the person. The only strong point she has is the late game, the biggest problem is just GETTING there. She has really fallen off on the meta specificly because new champions keep coming out, and these champions, along with most in the league, are a lot stronger than her. This is the reason RIOT reworks and relaunches champions.

If you have never played poppy before, try 3 games of her, then you will say she doesn't fit the meta

The whole reason for reworks are because every single champion needs to be playable and fun.
Playing devils advocate a little here....

1) Technically every champion IS playable. You might not like their power level, and power creeping does exist in League obviously.. but Poppy is still playable.

2) Never ever X1000000 will every champion fit into the meta. A large portion just don't fit in with what the pros are doing right now. Poppys playstyle might not be ideal, but a large portion of the few I've seen since pre S1 have done very well, save for in ARAM or Ranked.

3) Some buffs and changes are all good, but a complete rework? I agree with the OP somewhat, its kind of ridiculous. When/who was the first rework? Eve/Twitch maybe? I don't remember, but I remember being on these forums a lot and a few posts showed up about how they should rework a champion that had been out about a month.

They could make her a little beefier and make her less mana intensive and she might make a good comeback in normals and such. Maybe not in ranked, but still, see my previous points as to why (INSERT FAVORITE CHAMPION) might not ever be in the meta again.

4) Fun is subjective, so thats a hard thing to determine. There are a few champions I've tried and didn't like. Others have found them to be a blast. So how could Riot make every champion fun to everyone? Some champions just aren't YOUR or MY playstyle. When Twitch/Eve got reworked, there was a large backlash from the cult followers of them. Riot stated not many played them or found them fun... well apparently SOMEONE did.


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