Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Nanatsu

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Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey guys, just thinking outloud here and I don't want to derail the conversation but as it is related:
Does anyone think there should be a good way to tell if you are being revealed by your own actions (not just standing in a warded brush) and if so any suggestions on how to do this without visually crowding the screen?
Like Eve you could just make an ! pop up when you reveal yourself in brush or make it so you are no longer transparent either one would be a clear visual indicator.

As for Nunu casting Absolute Zero in the brush, if the particles on the ground around him were more clear and visible even in fog of war we could meet at a nice mid point where Nunu is still rewarded from his stealth play and that opponents facing it would only have gotten hit by it because they were not paying enough attention, the current form of it right now where you see the ice slow particles do not telegraph the information quick enough until it is too late. Finally when it comes down to casting spells inside of the brush it should probably receive the same treatment auto attacking would save for a few exceptions like Transformations, stealth, movement, self buffs.


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TheOddBoy

Senior Member

08-29-2013

I know there's a spot that is impossible to see on the blue side of the map even with a ward on it...I found a youtuber who almost lost a game for this... let me find this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=j3R_bjOLBEk

PLEASE FIX!


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FlashRebelJr

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj Burt View Post
CAITLYN:
Make Caitlyn not seen while she is channeling her ultimate from the bush.
Make Caitlyn's target line indicator from her ultimate invisible when channeling from the bush.
Reveal Caitlyn, target line indicator and projectile when Ultimate is fired off.

Caitlyn is a sniper.
Leaves some counterplay for last second body blocks and barriers.

Upvote for Agree!
Downvote for Disagree!
I hope that if the target line indicator is not visible when Cait is hiding, the red cog around the target remains, else there would be no counterplay anymore.

This is one of the main reasons I started to hate Dota : a ton of capital information about some big things are hidden to the victims. Three examples : Sniper's Assassinate, Gyrocopter's Homing Missile and Gyrocopter's Call Down, all these abilities are very long ranged, the two first ones are delayed and target-locked and the last one has a huge area of effect, but absolutely none of these abilities give any indication to the enemy about at whom or where it is fired. The Homing Missile can still be destroyed in flight, this is the only one of the three to be counterable, the other two are absolutely not.

While we are at it, I also had thought of another change to Cait's ult : making the missile instantly travel the full distance (unless blocked) but giving back a 1.25 second channel time, so the distance is no more a problem to place it (quite a shame for a sniper to be disadvantaged by long distances).


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FlashRebelJr

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CS3Narutoi View Post
I think Targeting abilities like Ryze's QWE should reveal the caster.
Reason: If it does not, using the Ryze example again, he can just QWQEQ from the brush and you have no way to fight back while snared.

Targeting allies/self should not reveal the caster. Champion being targeted should not be revealed as well.
Reason: You want to safely heal, not notify the enemy of your position so they can attack you again. Likewise, if you're healing your ally, revealing them would mean enemies can attack them again. This can also give a skillful advantage of surprise.
Ex. Vayne is getting hit and enters the brush to avoid damage. Enemies enter brush as well to kill Vayne. Soraka heals Vayne, and then together Vayne and Soraka surprises the enemy with the heal and successfully stuns/silences then kills them.

Skill shots should not reveal.
Reason: The advantages of a target spell means it will most likely hit and is undodgeable. Skill shots can be dodged, so if you react fast enough, you can either dodge the first one, and dodge any followup skill shots like Ezreal's QWR.

Skill shots should instead make the brush "rustle" where they cast it.
Reason: Like targeted spells, champions should have a chance to fight back. By showing where they cast the spell with the "rustling" area, you can fire back some skill shots to retaliate.
I guess you absolutely got it and summarized everything quite well.

Another great change (I already suggested this before) and that is quite simple (or I hope so) : considering that a skillshot is visible when the middle of its model gets into vision of the enemy, not when it is entirely into vision, because this is extremly frustrating to get hit by some totally invisible attacks (especially with Nidalee and Caitlyn, I stopped counting how many times they could hit me while I couldn't see anything coming or even hitting me). And even, if it is not enough, make skillshots visible when any bit of their hitbox is out of the fog of war.

I also agree for Nunu's ult : there is absolutely nothing visible, even when you are already slowed to hell.


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Raincall

Senior Member

08-29-2013

I didn't read all pages, but taking away Nunu's stealth while ulting will homogenize him a lot, it's part of his identity. I think it's a terrible idea, even more when your only argument is that 'new players don't know that'. Well new players also duel assassins and die to neutral monsters, it's part of learning the game. I hate it when you guys want everything so dumbed down and in that process we end up with a new generic champion.


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Dragneye

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Senior Member

08-29-2013

Galio Q needs to reveal brush/fog of war


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PacoTferret

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Yea kinda agree I like nunus ult but so freaked annoying to just walk by a ubsuspectin bush an bam you suddenly die and see nothing


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PacoTferret

Senior Member

08-29-2013

I don't mind it either way

Issue is riot is making a blizzard mistake and catering to much to te lower class players
Sorry but I learne in my first day playing

If enemy runs into a bush don't follow


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Raincall

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoTferret View Post
I don't mind it either way

Issue is riot is making a blizzard mistake and catering to much to te lower class players
Sorry but I learne in my first day playing

If enemy runs into a bush don't follow
Exactly, it's not hard to learn that, even more when Nunu is stacking AP. Riot is catering too much to new players and ruining the game for people that have played the game for more than six months.


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Raincall

Senior Member

08-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyorhist View Post
Here is something I was thinking about, if for example Nunu ulted in the brush, instead of revealing him and by default anything that is near him, just reveal the parts that are out of the brush/fog. This would solve a lot of the problems that people find with the over the wall nid spears too. As soon as it clears the wall it should be visible, though this would mean having to fine tune the wall lines, not so much work on the brush lines. But making sense of it, things going on in brush wouldn't be visible to the champs in lane, but when it leaves the brush, even just a little bit, that portion of it becomes visible. I would hate to try to imagine doing a jump with Ez and finding that it revealed me for jax to wall jump even though it only hit a monster. Brush usage is a large part of the game and has been used in a number of strategies throughout, but if some minor ability revealed the player there would be more counter-play than there would be strategy and thus unhealthy for the game.

Im sorry if I jumped all over the place, but I am at work and didn't get a chance to read it over
Then why ult in a bush in the first place? the whole purpose of ulting in a bush is having it already half channeled when the enemy first notices, otherwise he would just stay away. Revealing anything would destroy that play forever.

Also, you're talking about it as if that play was overpowered when it can be interrupted by almost every champion. This is nonsense and overcatering to new players. The game will have a hard time keeping players if they start doing stupid things like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptamei View Post
If Riot makes Nunu's ult visible in the bush, I quit. And I don't even play Nunu. But this fun-killing mindset of streamlining the enjoyment out of the game is going too far.
I will definitely quit too, it's not hard to see where the game is going if they make changes like that.

What will be next? revealing assassins all the time because they burst you down too easily if you step into a bush? I wouldn't be surprised considering what you did to Rengar. Where is the limit? I certainly won't be here for that.

Lately Riot has been trying too hard to find 'broken' aspects of the game, it feels forced. Instead of trying to innovate they release a bunch of skins to keep old players happy and proceed to dumb down the game a little more. Rinse and repeat.