Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-27-2013
17 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by So Skrood View Post
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=3809985

I don't mean to spam, but I think I have found a way to reproduce the jungler minimap bug.
Hey Skrood, thanks for the information. We actually think we have finally figured out what's going on here. It isn't actually jungler/smite related, but the jungle will definitely be the easiest role to have this happen for. I'm working with another engineer now on a fix.


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DowncastHarp

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey Skrood, thanks for the information. We actually think we have finally figured out what's going on here. It isn't actually jungler/smite related, but the jungle will definitely be the easiest role to have this happen for. I'm working with another engineer now on a fix.
Mind sharing what you've found out? Or is this something that you deem could be exploitable, therefore wait till it's fixed before explaining?

Also, have you considered any ideas to let players know when they are taking actions that reveal themselves?


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Lloser02

Junior Member

08-27-2013

I just played a game (as taric) against Support Nid. Early in the game, before wards were set in the side bushes, i sat at the corner of the bottom bush, because I was on the blue side. Without any warning, i proc'd a nid trap, that is, I took the damage, was revealed, etc. This is weird mainly for the reason that I didn't see nidalee in lane or the bush when she placed the trap, which was obviously planted while I stood there (I know this because I stood there for a few seconds w/o anything happening). Anything to help explain this? Perhaps it's the same problem others are having?


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Ava lre

Junior Member

08-27-2013

Yakaru I think that you should look at the bushes on Howling Abyss they seem to have very strange vision properties. For instance I will be sitting in a bush and Zilean puts a bomb on me so I know that he had vision because that is a target ability. Often times similar things happen with other champions that are not Zilean and it has happened to me when using multiple champions. Maybe a team mate revealed me be auto attacking but I am not entirely sure and I think that the bushes on Howling Abyss need to be looked at as well.


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Order5

Senior Member

08-27-2013

Hey Yakaru, speaking of teleport issues. I find that when I'm playing Caitlyn, and if I teleport somewhere from say the base, and I try to smartcast my pilt-shot to kill a minion wave or secure a kill, it always fires in the direction of my base instead. Same thing happens with the caliber net when I realize I'm teleporting into a very dangerous spot, and try to caliber net away as soon as I teleport in, but it's as though I'm aiming the smartcast towards base. Any way to fix this?

EDIT: Little off topic, but maybe you can look into it?


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-27-2013
18 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DowncastHarp View Post
Mind sharing what you've found out? Or is this something that you deem could be exploitable, therefore wait till it's fixed before explaining?

Also, have you considered any ideas to let players know when they are taking actions that reveal themselves?
I'd like to wait till we've fixed it and confirmed it all works -- just to prevent anyone from trying to purposefully exploit it as well as make sure I'm not spreading any false data, even inadvertently .


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-27-2013
19 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Order5 View Post
Hey Yakaru, speaking of teleport issues. I find that when I'm playing Caitlyn, and if I teleport somewhere from say the base, and I try to smartcast my pilt-shot to kill a minion wave or secure a kill, it always fires in the direction of my base instead. Same thing happens with the caliber net when I realize I'm teleporting into a very dangerous spot, and try to caliber net away as soon as I teleport in, but it's as though I'm aiming the smartcast towards base. Any way to fix this?

EDIT: Little off topic, but maybe you can look into it?
Yeah, a bit off topic but just to do a gut check -- when you cast a spell it is usually targeted 'absolutely' -- that is to say, at a specific point on the map and not a direction from your character. If you were to cast the spell as you teleported there's a chance it could be somehow targeted back to where you were before the teleport (which would explain why it's aimed towards your base) -- Can you give any more details? Is this right as you teleport?


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-27-2013
20 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Sub 06 View Post
Think of how Akali stealths and unstealths in Twilight Shroud. She has transparent model while stealhted and then bursts into full color while cutting up some "poor" Teemo. Its a pretty good method of knowing if your own actions have revealed you. Most champions, I believe, have this similar transparent model when either in stealth or in the brush. Copy this same "return to full color" mechanic to all champions actions in the brush. It's a fair bit natural, easily recognizable and communicable, and unobtrusive.
This is definitely sounding like at a minimum the most popular idea. I'm going to prototype it and see if this is technically feasible and looks good/natural


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Twist741

Member

08-27-2013

For what it's worth, in my opinion, AA should always reveal you, abilities shouldn't. Though you *should* be able to see the abilities themselves.

Using your examples, I think Nidalee and Blitz are fine. You see the Fist / Spear, but not the champion themselves. Nunu Ult on the other hand, is broken. You should be able to see the graphical effect so that you at least know WHY you're slowed in the first place.

This would be a simple rule to convey, no confusion, no miscommunication. If you start AA'ing, your location becomes revealed, if you're throwing abilities / skillshots, then they'll know you're in there, but not whereabouts exactly.


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CS3Narutoi

Senior Member

08-27-2013

I think Targeting abilities like Ryze's QWE should reveal the caster.
Reason: If it does not, using the Ryze example again, he can just QWQEQ from the brush and you have no way to fight back while snared.

Targeting allies/self should not reveal the caster. Champion being targeted should not be revealed as well.
Reason: You want to safely heal, not notify the enemy of your position so they can attack you again. Likewise, if you're healing your ally, revealing them would mean enemies can attack them again. This can also give a skillful advantage of surprise.
Ex. Vayne is getting hit and enters the brush to avoid damage. Enemies enter brush as well to kill Vayne. Soraka heals Vayne, and then together Vayne and Soraka surprises the enemy with the heal and successfully stuns/silences then kills them.

Skill shots should not reveal.
Reason: The advantages of a target spell means it will most likely hit and is undodgeable. Skill shots can be dodged, so if you react fast enough, you can either dodge the first one, and dodge any followup skill shots like Ezreal's QWR.

Skill shots should instead make the brush "rustle" where they cast it.
Reason: Like targeted spells, champions should have a chance to fight back. By showing where they cast the spell with the "rustling" area, you can fire back some skill shots to retaliate.