Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

First Riot Post
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doombotMECHA

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

crouching nidalee is annoying as hell, but hidden nunu ult is really cool...(no pun intended), and is a great punishment for facecheckers...the slowing notification kinda gives the game away if the enemy is paying any kind of attention.


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GageyGoodness

Junior Member

08-26-2013

I personally enjoy how it is now.


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EmmZeeAy

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Can you make visibility of enemies when they autoattack a little higher? I was dueling a Graves who went into the bush and attacked me in there.. He was visible for less than 1 second, pretty much unseeable halfway through the AA animation.


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Vacus

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
I used to play magic, dropped out around the Forgotten Empires set.
Ahri was the first champ I had a lot of input on; she has a special place in my heart.
haha, I don't blame you for qutting at Fallen Emp. That set was so ****ing bad I nearly quit myself.


On-topic: In general, I think that it should work like this.
-Autoattacks and targeted skills reveal you.
-Skillshots, ground-targeted skills, and anything else that can miss has the particle itself visible (Nidalee's spear or Ezrael's Mystic Shot or Blitzcrank's Fist or Nunu's Absolute Zero red circle with glowy ice), but the champion is not revealed.


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t4tNoFp4Ve

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey Renzokuken,

I'm going to get a bit technical here. I'm not saying this is how it should work, but just how it currently works.

Basically the way vision works is each vision source is evaluated separately:
the sight you get that shows stealth does not 'reveal all stealth in this area' but requires the source of that stealth (e.g. your pink ward outside the brush, your support with oracles, etc.) sight actually see it. So even if your green ward can see inside the brush it doesn't "partner up" with the pink/oracles nearby to see inside it.

If you guys think this could be changed I'm definitely open to talk about it
Thanks for the answer, kinda "sad" to know that it's a mechanical thing, and not just a "baance (for lack of a better word) thing

I think visions should "partner up", like you said, it's just logical that if you have vision of said bush (by green ward, or an ally steping inside it), and your "reveal source" (pink or oracle's) is on sight radius, but outside of the bush, anything stealthed on said bush, should be revealed


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnExtraordinaire View Post
you're literally ruining a champion if you remove this interaction. Nunu has very little gameplay outside of his ultimate, and is mostly a walking bloodboil late game.
Then maybe they should do something about his core gameplay hinging around what most people would consider a bug?


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Yoruichi

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Hey Renzokuken,

I'm going to get a bit technical here. I'm not saying this is how it should work, but just how it currently works.

Basically the way vision works is each vision source is evaluated separately:
the sight you get that shows stealth does not 'reveal all stealth in this area' but requires the source of that stealth (e.g. your pink ward outside the brush, your support with oracles, etc.) sight actually see it. So even if your green ward can see inside the brush it doesn't "partner up" with the pink/oracles nearby to see inside it.

If you guys think this could be changed I'm definitely open to talk about it
I believe it should be changed as well. If my ally is in a bush and I'm outside of it with my oracles, I effectively have vision control of that bush. If the ward is within my oracles vision radius, why should I also have to enter the bush just to kill the ward? It's not very intuitive, I think everybody has learned this lesson the hard way


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013
12 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoruichi View Post
Also, regarding your OP. I rather like that Nidalee is the master of the brush. That's her domain and it's always been her playstyle. It would feel dirty to me to take it away from her. I say this as somebody who plays Nid like, once every 2 months or so.
The idea of certain abilities/champions having some form of "brush stealth" makes sense to me so long as the mechanic is well communicated to both the player of that champion and anyone playing against them


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CBlazer

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Another annoying/weird edge-case that causes some unintuitive results and, imho, should be fixed:

(A) When I am inside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the same bush, we can see each other, he autoattacks me, and I step out of the bush a split second later, he disappears instantly and I cannot attack him.

Compare with:

(B) When I am outside a bush, and the enemy champion is inside the bush, and he autoattacks me, he is revealed for the usual duration and I can attack him.

Situation (A) just doesn't feel right, considering most players are familiar with the mechanics of situation (B). Players expect someone autoattacking them from inside a bush to be continuously revealed (situation B), but the odd circumstance where I step out of the bush causes the person attacking me to disappear briefly (until his next autoattack).

My suggested solution would be for the "reveal" mechanic to be applied even in situations where it is moot. (i.e., we are both inside the same bush, and we can see each other anyway, so any "reveal" mechanic is moot) If the usual "reveal" mechanic was applied to the attacker in situation (A), he would still be revealed when I stepped out of the bush.


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Lillemanden

Junior Member

08-26-2013

I can't remember if this got fixed recently, but I think some dev mentioned.

Which is, Singed's poison trail that goes invisible when he enter a bush, even though the poison is outside the bush.
This really seems for me to be the biggest vision gotcha in the game.

How about skill shot's thrown over a wall, these shouldn't be visible to the enemy player before the projectile enters exits the FoW.