Do you see what I see? (Brush & Fog of War Discussion)

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Battle Pope V2

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I dont feel like skill shots should reveal you. I do however wish that some of the particles would get cleaned up. A lot of times I feel like nids spear is already half way out of the bush before I even have the opportunity to see it, reducing the time I have to respond, which is frustrating.


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Raz al Ghul

Member

08-26-2013

What is the range of the revealed area when these actions are taken? Does it reveal every one in the brush, or just a small area around the caster/autoattacker?


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013
4 of 23 Riot Posts

Hey guys,

first up I totally want to fix pinks not showing other wards in brush and invisible skill shots! I think everyone wants that The same goes for the minimap teleport bug -- if anyone has a good way to consistently reproduce that let me know. I hate that bug too.

I'm glad to hear from people like Sty13z who brought up their own confusion about vision. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in my confusion . I know I often instinctually do the wrong thing, here's my example:
* ambush setup in brush
* cast a skill shot
* RETREAT before they counter-attack my squishy (even though my cast didn't reveal me)
Maybe this is just my own bad habit, but the current rules are complex and there's no way to tell if I've exposed myself.

NUNU:
Nunu was a big topic -- thanks to blockpartay, Narssisstic, Arizel and everyone else who chimed in there. I think Nunu's ult is the most obvious example of a spell which has unintuitive vision rules:
* The first time I played Nunu, I didn't know that casting his ult in a brush had this huge, dangerous advantage.
* "Im 729 elo" made a great point that at least showing the particle effect may be a good compromise. This also is consistent with skill shot behavior -- I see the mystic shot from brush, but I don't see the giant orb of ice.
If we were to change Nunu, though, we would definitely balance him appropriately, and I would defer to the Live Design team to make the right calls on changes there.

SKILL SHOTS:
Squippit had the thoughts of revealing when a skill shot 'lands'
* pro: this makes sense (you damaged someone, brush drops, if you don't damage them you stay hidden).
* con: I can see it leading to my tank purposefully taking that nid spear so we can jump on her.
is that good counterplay or punishing someone for successfully using their spear?

Another interesting one to consider: if I'm playing Ahri and cast Foxfire (W), should that expose Ahri? Should she be exposed when one flame acquires onto an enemy minion or champion?


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Wichman

Member

08-26-2013

I noticed, and tl;dr, if anybody mentioned Janna's tornado. I'm not 100% sure if it happens everytime, but when i play vs a janna, in bushes, you can see her tornado building up. Do i think a tornado can hide in a bush? Absolutely not. But again it comes up with consistency, it should not be seen beings its not guaranteed damage.


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Shiny Swinub

Senior Member

08-26-2013

In response to that specific inquiry:

Don't reveal Nidalee when her skill shot lands. Her team should have to be able to quickly ward the bush and then jump her; that would be punishing her for landing a skillshot.

Ahri reveal when one flame strikes IMO.

If only they fixed Ahri's charm resetting minions...


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HYDROPUMP5PP

Senior Member

08-26-2013

community wants justice Riot won't dish it out.

how hard is it to treat all players the same? why does gem have special privileges (name changes to w/e name she wants and immune to the elo boosting rules)?


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Arsenals

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Aggressive action SHOULD reveal you momentarily.

While we're at it, can we please fix the bush spots (mainly bottom lane) where you can't see certain spots of the brush even though it's warded?


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Punish This Hole

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boyahda View Post
Instead of worrying with these little changes, how about fixing the long standing (6 months+?) bug of champions just appearing out of the fog of war and then reappearing somewhere else. It's a big ****ing problem and it bothers me that Riot doesn't even acknowledge it's existence.
*cough cough* this


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Yakaru

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Senior Software Engineer

08-26-2013
5 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerbIade View Post
What about Teemo? Every time someone steps on a shroom, will Teemo be revealed for a few seconds?
Hey PowerbIade,

Good point. If I step on a Teemo mushroom or Caitlyn trap I probably shouldn't see Teemo/Cait even if they're "in range" of my team's vision and hiding in a brush. I'd say in those cases the trap/shroom is causing the damage, not the champ who put it there.


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Cynicatt

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

I like the idea of skillshots landing on champions revealing the caster for a moment at least.

Something like the Nidalee spear moves very slowly and has a long range. Nidalee has plenty of time to get moving(especially if she's in a bush) after she throws that spear. The fact that it would reveal her would actually take out that annoying "lol I'll just chuck my spear everytime it's off cooldown" thing that Nidalee does, and offer room for Nidalee to think about whether she should throw out a spear or not. There's already very little a lot of champions can do about the range of the spear anyway.