A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ironstryde

Member

08-24-2013

This sounds really appealing to me. Honestly makes Rengar a much more interesting and less binary character. Get to play some "cat and mouse" now. Pardon the awful pun.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

X1zz3l

Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
-snip-
First off all, thanks for being with us again Scarizard
This ultimate change looks really awesome and I'd probably like it but I have one concern:
Does Rengar REALLY need to lose ALL of the bonus MS when entering stealth?

Couldn't it just be...lower? Like if it's 30%/40%/50% normally, couldn't it be 10/20/30? (or 10/15/20 if too strong)

No ms seems rather lackluster to me but oh well, gotta try it first before saying anything :P

For the Ferocity consume bonus...this is kinda hard
Increased base stats could go overboard, increased speed and / or stealth time seem rather boring.
Gotta pass on that for now, will make my mind up and edit the post later

Another concern I have is the delay on both, the normal and stealth cast. If Lanegar gets ganked, will the normal "Hunt" ms bonus still have an activation delay when being damage? Will the "Stalk" stealth swap have a delay when being damage? And how high will this "after a few seconds, Rengar can activate Stalk to go invis.." be? Like, how long does he need to wait?

Overall this looks great, just needs a little more clarification on those things mentioned above
Thanks for doing this rework and listening to the community Scari <3


I really like everything of the rework as of now BUT the Bola Strike still bothers me a little bit. If it's going to be a skillshot, do you have any comparision on how wide / fast the Bola will be?
(I.E. Kennen Q, Kha'zix W...)
Would be good to know
And PLEASE let it reveal people, I wanna make dem bushjump Bola plays, I BEG YOU :c

Sincerely, happy Dia 5 Rengar main <3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

HappyMaskSalesmn

Senior Member

08-24-2013

does he still have the ability to leap and have vision of enemies while stalking?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ImAlwaysHelping

Member

08-24-2013

loving this idea for the new ultimate when do we get a chance to test it? how long do wait on the in between times of cast 1-2 secs. will this new stealth last less than 5 secs? when we take action under stealth any other bonus?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Bonus Question!- Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'Empowering' your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+Damage and +Stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.

Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!
Okay, here's a crazy idea that might be a bit OP and a bit crazy and perhaps too situational, but it sounds cool so hear me out:

Thrill of the Hunt Ferocity Bonus: Big Game-If Rengar achieves a kill or assist within a certain time span of Thrill of the Hunt, Rengar gains ANOTHER Bonetooth Necklace trophy.

Issue is for people that aren't using Bonetooth Necklace it doesn't really benefit them...there could be another benefit with that that makes it worth it though.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-24-2013
55 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdSinger View Post
Change it to not be "a few seconds." There should be a short delay like .5 seconds between activation so people don't turn on stealth without meaning to, but "a few seconds" is too long.
This is something that can be toyed with, but the idea here is that the Stealth from Stalk activation has no delayed fade time like Live (where damage causes the fade time to increase). Basically if you catch a Rengar out and he ults, either A. He's gonna book it the whole way, in which case you can see him the whole time or B. He has about seconds of running/juking he needs to do before he has access to his instant stealth.

Again, the intricacies of how/when he stealths is tunable, but i'd like very much for there to be a delay between the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfDrDeath View Post
I like this. Majorly.

When do we finally get to play with it? Can't wait

EDIT: Does Rengar entering Stealth/approaching in Stealth give some kind of warning to the enemy?
Or, make Rengar's Stealth like Eve Stealth, making him visible if he enters a certain distance (Leap distance?) to an enemy champion? That way, stealth could stay up longer to evade wards?
Assuming you still can Leap out of Stalk, that is. Can you?
I've posted in one of the main-page edits why it's unlikely that we'd give him Evelynn Stealth - but yes, you can still Leap out of Stalk. From Rengar's Passive: While in brush or in stealth, Rengar gains bonus attack range and his attacks cause him to leap at his target.

<3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bork Hammer 40k View Post
Like the idea. Great trade off. But I have a question. After the stealth ends will the movement speed turn back on or does triggering the stealth end the ultimate entirely?

As for an empowered bonus, why not give him a steroid like:

Empowered: Upon activating thrill of the hunt Rengar gains +x AD and +x% Attack Speed for each stack of Ferocity consumed. Lasts for x seconds after Thrill of the Hunt ends.

Lasting after the ult ends allows him to actually take advantage of it, of course
Once you activate Stalk, that's it. Any of the duration you had in Hunt is now gone - you can maximize this in a long-rage engagement (Use hunt to traverse great distance, Stalk at the end) but in cases where you'll Hunt, run at them and have a good portion of Hunt left, your decision to Stalk must be weighed againt using the duration of that MS. You don't lose Predator Vision though - it's just the movement speed.

As for that bonus, it's possible - except that he already gets quite a bit of attack speed, and builds AD. It's not saying that we couldn't do it - AS fits within the paradigm of of less burst more sustained, but i'd want to hear more and brainstorm before i defaulted to just 'damage output'. I'd hate to make any of Rengar's spells hit less hard just because he has a steroid on his ult.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Borand

Senior Member

08-24-2013

First of all, welcome back Mr. Scarizard. Seems like the DevTracker still considers you to be a Dev :P

I'd like to say that this certainly feels better than before. I would really want to hear your take on the following:

1. What do you think of Rengar being able to switch through modes until taking offensive action or duration ends?

2. Is Rengar going to have any other tools to re-leap on his target once he's been kited?

3. There's a problem with the current itteration of battle roar that limits itself to the subgroup that battle roar should affect. Can you please at least let us know if you'll hold a discussion with us about our concerns?

Thanks in advance if you decide to respond (please? )


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hardinger

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Awesome idea, I actually see this as an improvement to his current ult, since this makes it more interesting. Brilliant idea, please don't rescind this.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bork Hammer 40k

Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Once you activate Stalk, that's it. Any of the duration you had in Hunt is now gone - you can maximize this in a long-rage engagement (Use hunt to traverse great distance, Stalk at the end) but in cases where you'll Hunt, run at them and have a good portion of Hunt left, your decision to Stalk must be weighed againt using the duration of that MS. You don't lose Predator Vision though - it's just the movement speed.

As for that bonus, it's possible - except that he already gets quite a bit of attack speed, and builds AD. It's not saying that we couldn't do it - AS fits within the paradigm of of less burst more sustained, but i'd want to hear more and brainstorm before i defaulted to just 'damage output'. I'd hate to make any of Rengar's spells hit less hard just because he has a steroid on his ult.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my feedback, I really appreciate that you're listening to us . Anyways, I absolutely agree about the cons to the AD/AS steroid. I wouldn't want to see his Q lose power just because he gets a huge damage boost with his ult :P.

How about this one as a possibility:

Empowered: Rengar gains extra range on his leap based on how many stacks of Ferocity he consumed.

I think this would allow him to pull off some incredible leap jukes or catch those really slippery ADCs that think they've seen the last of the knifecat.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Arcturus633

Junior Member

08-24-2013

I have yet to post on this thread, but I have been following it since page 70 or so. First of all, I want to thank Scarizard, I think you have been doing a great job on here, and it astounds me how positive you are able to stay with all of the venom that was in the posts for a while. Honestly, I was good with every change you were making, sure it was a messing with some core mechanics, but as has been stated, stealth is a bit abusive.

As for the Ult you have just shown. To me it would make sense if the order were switched. Start out in Stalk mode, and then toggle Hunt. One stalks their prey until that right opportunity, and then the Chase happen. That being said, I would understand if there was some gameplay reason for it to be ordered the way it is.

I also really like the Idea of empowering his Ult as well. What would make it truly awesome for me is the empowered version gives him one extra leap he can use within a time limit of using the first one. number balancing is beyond me, but it would give him at least some ability to either stay on his target during an assault, or jump in, get some damage, and jump out. Kind of follow the mentality of a wolf pack, darting in to nip at the preys heels, and darting back out. And yes I know Rengar is a Lion, not a wolf. But he is also a sentient hunter, and would use different hunting techniques depending on the prey.