Skarner, I miss your kind

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steelguttey

Junior Member

08-20-2013

@Scruffy

Although i love the stuff you are doing to skarner, i personally think that you are nerfing one big part of my favorite role to play with Skarner.

Laning Skarner. See, Skarner would have a terrible laning phase if he didnt have sustain in the form of his e and now all he has is the shield. I know that he is meant to played jungle, but laning skarner is just SO MUCH FUN. Please keep his sustain in some respects or he will unable to do anything but jungle.


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Ra Horakhty

Member

08-20-2013

Guess I'll be refunding my Earthrune skin that I've had since I bought Skarner, who was one of the first champs I picked up when I started playing League more than a year ago. :|

Between the removal of the slow on his Q, and the removal of the heal, as a person who would play a lot of top lane Skarner (and win lane very often with it, mind you), I really don't feel much of a draw to play him anymore. The heal removal was already offputting enough for me towards the beginning of the rework, but the slow being taken from Q was just the nail in the coffin for me. Oh well. :/

EDIT: Can't even refund the skin. Forgot it had to be bought within the last three months. Oh well. Guess I'll just have it sit there.


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

08-20-2013
24 of 35 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelguttey View Post

Laning Skarner.
Laning Skarner is a consideration that we've had and he's still as viable if not more than he was before. Being able to stack up the attack speed buff on Q makes you a very strong duelist. He makes up for his loss in sustain in other new ways. He wont be one of the most popular solo laners but he isn't totally unviable.


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Draciusen

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra Horakhty View Post
Guess I'll be refunding my Earthrune skin that I've had since I bought Skarner, who was one of the first champs I picked up when I started playing League more than a year ago. :|

Between the removal of the slow on his Q, and the removal of the heal, as a person who would play a lot of top lane Skarner (and win lane very often with it, mind you), I really don't feel much of a draw to play him anymore. The heal removal was already offputting enough for me towards the beginning of the rework, but the slow being taken from Q was just the nail in the coffin for me. Oh well. :/
Everything was moved around, except for the heal which was removed. I think it's better to have the slow on the E, since it's easier to land 1 E than staying on top of the enemy long enough to land 2 Q, and it makes Q more offensive since he gets the AS increase on it.

Still think the heal mark should be moved to his W, the combination of a shield + heal would help him counter those mean people who take ranged top (Perhaps have enemies be marked after the shield disappears instead of during it).


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LiketheCar

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draciusen View Post
I think it's better to have the slow on the E, since it's easier to land 1 E than staying on top of the enemy long enough to land 2 Q, and it makes Q more offensive since he gets the AS increase on it.
I can definitely see the boon in that, I'm just worried about him losing his ability to lock the opponent up. But this all depends on the CD of his E. If it's 6-10 seconds, it might be more readily manageable. I guess they're trying to have it synergize with his passive more.


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Ra Horakhty

Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draciusen View Post
Everything was moved around, except for the heal which was removed. I think it's better to have the slow on the E, since it's easier to land 1 E than staying on top of the enemy long enough to land 2 Q, and it makes Q more offensive since he gets the AS increase on it.

Still think the heal mark should be moved to his W, the combination of a shield + heal would help him counter those mean people who take ranged top (Perhaps have enemies be marked after the shield disappears instead of during it).
I'm not saying it's a bad rework. Just for me, personally, I hate the new playstyle. For me, the permaslow on his Q was iconic, so I thought it would stay. I'm sure plenty of people will love the new Skarner, but as a long time skarner player, I think he would have been just fine with ONLY the root on ulti cast. That alone would have made him just fine. Like I said, though, I'm sure plenty will love him. And that's fine. I'm just never going to touch him again.


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Mestergrog

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiketheCar View Post
Is it possible at all to get a clear explanation on why the slow was removed from his Q? To me, one of the most fun aspects of Skarner was his ability to remain in pursuit of a single target by repeatedly slowing them. I can understand an issue of permaslow causing undesired lack of counterplay, but it was one of Skarner's charms. My concern is that removing his ability to keep enemies tied down will really reduce his ability to perform the way he does now; one of his only ways to stay on a target will be removed. Due to fairly lackluster damage, he needed to keep enemies close to put them down.
Quote:
Due to fairly lackluster damage, he needed to keep enemies close to put them down.
The rework is giving him a ranged slow with a slightly longer duration, and it still gets refreshed from Skarner's passive, so he won't need to keep enemies so close anymore. Coupled with the fact that his shield value is higher and harder to remove, he'll be faster too


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

08-20-2013
25 of 35 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiketheCar View Post
Is it possible at all to get a clear explanation on why the slow was removed from his Q? To me, one of the most fun aspects of Skarner was his ability to remain in pursuit of a single target by repeatedly slowing them. I can understand an issue of permaslow causing undesired lack of counterplay, but it was one of Skarner's charms. My concern is that removing his ability to keep enemies tied down will really reduce his ability to perform the way he does now; one of his only ways to stay on a target will be removed. Due to fairly lackluster damage, he needed to keep enemies close to put them down.
Yes, I'll clarify because this is in many people's opinions the most significant loss to his kit. There are a few major gains to the new slow pattern compared to the old.

-Skarner is still able to get to and stick with a target. This is key to Skarner's ability to play the game (as a melee) and we definitely would not remove this from him.

-Targets are not slowed permanently without any means of escape. The new slow will give him about 50% slow uptime without much cooldown reduction. This allows for both Skarner and his target to make meaningful plays. A target with a moveblock has to be smart about using it or Skarner will be able to reapply slow or catch up. Skarner players can also be smart about coordinating their slow with other CC from their team or even with a slow->ult->slow combo by themselves.

-The new slow application has more interest for both Skarner and the target. The slow on a line skillshot nuke adds a lot of thought/skill to Skarner play and feels really good to hit. New opportunities of when and how to use the slow are opened up and it gives the needed variety to his kit. Skarner is taking some risk to cast the slow, but if he lands the skillshot there is an appropriate reward.

From the many people internally that we have had playtest the new Skarner, they all seem to agree that this pattern is more interesting and fun. I hope you feel the same way when you have the chance to play him.


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LiketheCar

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra Horakhty View Post
I'm just never going to touch him again.
Hopefully, the basic premise of his kit will remain the same. The cooldown passive of his might make the E more capable of locking up than the old Q because of its range. At the very least, give him a chance before you discard him completely.


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Draciusen

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra Horakhty View Post
I'm not saying it's a bad rework. Just for me, personally, I hate the new playstyle. For me, the permaslow on his Q was iconic, so I thought it would stay. I'm sure plenty of people will love the new Skarner, but as a long time skarner player, I think he would have been just fine with ONLY the root on ulti cast. That alone would have made him just fine. Like I said, though, I'm sure plenty will love him. And that's fine. I'm just never going to touch him again.
And the mana costs. I'm sure everybody and their grandma has trouble managing Skarner's mana costs.