Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Draciusen

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Well, after trying him on the free week, I can easily say Skarner goes OOM insanely fast, even after I went with a trolling Muramana and Seraph's Embrace in a custom. His mana costs definitely need to be looked at, they're completely absurd.

While I agree his E is lackluster, I don't want the heal aspect of it to be entirely removed. How about moving it over to his W? When he activates his shield, he can mark all enemies in a radius around him (No damage needed, just the mark) and then proceed to consume them and heal. It'd be great for sustaining through harass and such.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Locke64

Senior Member

08-20-2013

If we're talking about burrows then we're talking about replacing W, not E. It makes no sense to have two different gap-closers with such poor synergy.

Also there are many different types of burrow to think about. Maokai's W, Vlad's W, Amumu's Q, Lee Sin's Q, etc. Vlad's W minus the slow plus the ability to Q, E, and R (with R breaking the burrow) with a higher cooldown would be my favorite option I think, though overall I'm against giving Skarner a burrow. I prefer the current W with a low-profile anti-kiting measure on E (e.g. Stand Aside).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Staize

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

08-20-2013

So my thoughts on Skarner QoL tweaks are as is: A) add a slight slow to his E; B) Increase damage on E; C) make E proc on hit effects and hit the first target only, it doesn't need to pass through to others; D)lastly increase the range on ult by maybe about 10 units? Everything else on him is great. Skarner's biggest problem is his pre 6 ganks are weak and make him more of a farm jungler until then. If he wasn't so lackluster in early game he would be more useful as a whole. So I think with these tweaks he will be more viable in the early game making him more viable as a whole. not leaving the jungle for a gank until lvl 6 can really hurt your team if they arent at least trading even in lane, and with skarner the way he is currently ganking pre 6 is just to risky due to the fact that one failed gank buts him years behind.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RiotScruffy

Game Designer

08-20-2013
22 of 35 Riot Posts

Hey all. This thread has been so incredibly helpful, you all have been having huge impact on this Skarner rework so far. We are getting more and more happy with each new version and I wanted to provide an update of where we are at. Skarner feels like a much more reliable pick with these changes, and I think he will gain a lot of his old glory back when you all have a chance to play him.

Overall, his ability to engage in ganks, mid game skirmishes, and late game team fights is increased. He is still able to brawl and 1v1 very well and his jungle clear times are slightly improved. The E is an essential part of his kit now, and it has opened up a lot of interesting new plays that Skarner can make. One of the most important things is that, for us old Skarner players, he still feels like the Skarner we know and love.

Full changelist:

Base Attack speed lowered by 1%

Crystal Slash (Q)
-Mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-When target is hit, gives skarner an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8%
-Slow removed (moved to E)

Exoskeleton (W)
-Attack speed component removed (moved to Q)
-Cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-Max movepseed increased to 24/28/32/36/40% and ramps up over 3s
-Duration remains at 6s
-Shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-Shield AP ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

Fracture (E)
-Mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 40/45/50/55/60
-Heal removed (power moved into W shield)
-Targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50% for 2.5s
-Missile range increased 800->1000
-Missile width reduced 120->90
-Missile speed reduced 1800->1700

Impale (R)
-Impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation

Anything not mentioned in the changelist is the same. Numbers are still not locked down so don't sweat the small details.

-Team Skarner


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Broken789

Junior Member

08-20-2013

Looking good. I might have to buy him now. Any idea on when these changes will hit the PBE?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sun Tzu X2

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Good Stuff Scruffy. Overall seems like a half a dozen small changes that make his kit better. I do have one question/concern, before you said his Ultimate will now be more reliable. What exactly does that mean? Just wanna know what could happen in different scenarios

Thanks


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimiron View Post
I don't have antagonism towards AP Skarner fans. AP Skarner is fun. I think you're taking comments more extreme than common English comprehension allows to shut down an opposing voice to feel better without having to think about importance of changes? AP Skarner is bad outside of having fun in normals. He's very good for that, the "fun" thing. But I can't pull him out in my 5v5 ranked team games without gimping my team. Whether as a jungling bruiser or a squishy clumsy AP. Period.
<snip>
In my opinion, one of the reasons that AP Skarner isn't viable in more serious games is because of his current numbers. Do you think that if his numbers were tweaked around a little bit (more damage/healing, lower cooldowns and/or mana costs) that AP Skarner would enter the realm of viability?

I guess I believe that his current kit could be given different numbers that would bring both AP Skarner and Jungle Tank Skarner into the realm of viability.

For example, cut 25% off his cooldowns, cut his mana costs in half (he STILL might go OOM without blue buff), fix the bug with his ult and get rid of the diminishing returns of the healing on his E and you end up with a Scorpion that everybody with call "OP!OMG!LULZ!", but keep everything where it's at and picking Skarner will get a "Ugh! Skarner sux, so outclassed". So it seems like there should be a sweet spot between to two that would make the players happy.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

08-20-2013

I like the W buffs a lot. This looks good. Im still worried that E won't quite cut it but thats something i can't know until i try it out. I think its a missed opportunity to do something really cool with the mark that E used to apply.

Overall Q,W, and R look really solid (I'm glad they are now rooted as you begin the ult!)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by riotscruffy View Post
hey all. This thread has been so incredibly helpful, you all have been having huge impact on this skarner rework so far. We are getting more and more happy with each new version and i wanted to provide an update of where we are at. Skarner feels like a much more reliable pick with these changes, and i think he will gain a lot of his old glory back when you all have a chance to play him.

Overall, his ability to engage in ganks, mid game skirmishes, and late game team fights is increased. He is still able to brawl and 1v1 very well and his jungle clear times are slightly improved. The e is an essential part of his kit now, and it has opened up a lot of interesting new plays that skarner can make. One of the most important things is that, for us old skarner players, he still feels like the skarner we know and love.

Full changelist:

Base attack speed lowered by 1%

crystal slash (q)
-mana cost reduced from 20/22/24/26/28 to 16/18/20/22/24
-when target is hit, gives skarner an attack speed buff for 6s that stacks up to 3 times 4/5/6/7/8%
-slow removed (moved to e)

exoskeleton (w)
-attack speed component removed (moved to q)
-cooldown lowered from 18s to 14s
-max movepseed increased to 24/28/32/36/40% and ramps up over 3s
-duration remains at 6s
-shield value increased from 70/115/160/205/250 to 75/125/175/225/280
-shield ap ratio increased from 0.6 to 0.8

fracture (e)
-mana cost reduced from 50/55/60/65/70 to 40/45/50/55/60
-heal removed (power moved into w shield)
-targets hit are slowed by 30/35/40/45/50% for 2.5s
-missile range increased 800->1000
-missile width reduced 120->90
-missile speed reduced 1800->1700

impale (r)
-impale now roots targeted champion during the windup animation

anything not mentioned in the changelist is the same. Numbers are still not locked down so don't sweat the small details.

-team scarner

Name:  8b29c4c7.jpg
Views: 7153
Size:  75.3 KB


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Draciusen

Senior Member

08-20-2013

This might just seem crazy, but what if you keep the mark on his E, and have it regen mana (Since his shield is so strong now)?