So you're planning to "Scaridize" talon?

First Riot Post
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Mecha KhaZix

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Talon's counterplay consists of:

Having a pink ward so when he uses his ult you can hit him
Pressure him early (duh, not really counterplay)
Armguard (still not really counterplay)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
Win-rate is just one of many factors when you balance a champion right?

Maybe talon has a high win rate because people ONLY pick him vs champions they KNOW he counters i.e. Kassadin and thus they have a higher chance of winning as compared to picking Talon vs i.e. Zed - a match up you a much much less likely to see.

Can we all just stop quoting win-rates? Please? Riot included too.. Winrate is one part of a large puzzle -_-
Why is his winrate high in Bronze then?


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UgIierBetty

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
Win-rate is just one of many factors when you balance a champion right?

Maybe talon has a high win rate because people ONLY pick him vs champions they KNOW he counters i.e. Kassadin and thus they have a higher chance of winning as compared to picking Talon vs i.e. Zed - a match up you a much much less likely to see.

Can we all just stop quoting win-rates? Please? Riot included too.. Winrate is one part of a large puzzle -_-
Niche picks should have low win-rates. Playing an Assassin should be a risk.


For example, LeBlanc has the lowest win-rate of any mid-laner in the game. However, if played correctly she completely dominates the entire game. In my last 6 LeBlanc games, I've won 5.


If Talon has a win-rate over 50%, in my opinion, there is a problem. Assassins shouldn't be that easy to dominate with.


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Gespens

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
Challenger has Talon being picked 3 times. I couldn't use it as a reference point, so i used diamond games.
winrate in diamond is 50.54% which can be called good, actually, and 1/5 of the days are above 53%. His monthly pickrate isn't exactly 'awful' either, around 2.4% (eyeballing this, but considering there are a good chunk of champs with < 2%, that is a decent)


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-20-2013
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insoy View Post
Forum bugs too hmm? You got a lot to fix..
By the way when you cast Talon's ult and press R to retract the blades fast enough it glitches and the 2nd wave never hits or shows at all since there isn't an animation on how fast the blades come back with how the player pushes it. That's been there since S1 and I understand that's an animation problem but that bug has live their for almost 2 years.
Volty actually tracked down this bug last week, and a fix is in. Don't know which patch it'll be included with, but our QA says it checks out. Likely to be 3.11.


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GoldenPlana

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

Before I rant, what exactly is riot going to change about Talon?


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

08-20-2013
4 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Nope, it's on page 12. Dev Tracker/First Riot post has been bugged all weekend - i've posted like 10+ times in the Rengar thread since last friday that almost no one can see because of it @_@ it's pretty annoying when trying to communicate with people but not going to keep me from posting in threads altogether.
Yep. There's some issues with the forums right now and the Red Tracker is basically offline.


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Mecha KhaZix

Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chong Park View Post
Before I rant, what exactly is riot going to change about Talon?
You don't even read, do you


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Dory

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Nope, it's on page 12. Dev Tracker/First Riot post has been bugged all weekend - i've posted like 10+ times in the Rengar thread since last friday that almost no one can see because of it @_@ it's pretty annoying when trying to communicate with people but not going to keep me from posting in threads altogether.
Speaking of Rengar... Why the hell are you changing him so much? You're literally tossing him into dirt tier where olaf is at now.
Rengar is fine where he is right now, so why change him? >.>
He doesn't need a buff nor a nerf.
And before you say like you did with Talon "I main talon s1/s2 and for year+" I bet you don't even know the secret behind making Rengar OP.
If you do, then please tell it to us, because it seems most diamond rengars have NO IDEA about it, and only Ryan Choi best rengar in world knows. GG riot GG. If you think he needs a nerf, then just remove the freakin BUG you have on him.

~Eleboo, 0 rengar games played, knows everything about Rengar from watching Ryan. GG


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Klastos

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Senior Member

08-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
What i meant with my 'i don't know' is nowhere in my post did the words 'We are looking at Talon' 'I am reworking Talon' 'Talon is going to receive a Rework' ever appeared. I know why you thought that - because you quoted me as giving an example of him as a champion with low counterplay, but if Talon was a champion that Live wanted to rework/update in some way, i would have said so (I recently posted in a Taric thread that Live Design is interested in him but needs to clear far more stuff off our plate to get there).

I don't think it's sad that you know more about Talon than me - You play almost nothing but Talon. It's obvious and expected that you have a greater understanding of his specific matchups, buildpaths, and situational strengths than i do. I'm just saying that i mained him for almost a year and loved playing him and can attest to him being fun (Made it from 1100 to 1600 S1, then 1300 to 1800 S2 playing almost exclusively Talon). I'm not trying to make this a contest ?_? just saying i'm with you when i think Talon's a super cool character.



Talon has one of the higher winrates in our game in every region, ranked and unranked, in a wide range of elos. He isn't -just- good in low elo normals D:
Sure talon has a great win rate all over the board but lets look at why. He is not considered an OP/exploitable champion right now so his pick and ban rates are so low. Only the Talon faithfuls are really playing him so why wouldn't he have a good win rate? These people would not be playing the champion if they weren't good with him. According to his stats on lolking, it says that his pick rate is 4.12% compared to champions that are considered strong such as Cait, J4, ect that are around 20-36%. His ban rate is .1%, in line with Viktor and Swain, so clearly people aren't too afraid of him and his win rate is 50.81% which isn't even enough to say that there is anything wrong with the champion in the hands of competent players. I think the win rates here only show us that there are people who can make Talon work among the vast majority who don't even play the champion.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-20-2013
5 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chong Park View Post
Before I rant, what exactly is riot going to change about Talon?
Nothing. I was giving an example of Talon as an assassin with low counterplay in a separate thread, and insoy inferred incorrectly that i or the Live Design team plan on reworking/making changes to Talon when we aren't.