A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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tduro112

Member

08-18-2013

His Dev trackers has a bug right now, he's continuing to update his thoughts and reactions on the original post.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rengar my love View Post
Just going to show this again, hopefully getting a reply from Scarizard about it.

How about you read the front page with his first post where he DID reply to it.


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USC Zeratul

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Senior Member

08-18-2013

Serious question here:
How is Rengar's proposed ult change (8/16) not just a weaker version of Master Yi's ult? Based on your description, it seems like his ult just gives movespeed and the ability to jump on his first attack. And then he loses the movespeed. Meanwhile, Master Yi gets movespeed, immunity to slows, and retains the buff even after his first attack? And the ability to reset his cooldowns? Sure, Rengar's ult probably lasts 2x as long as Yi's ult, but having a 28 second long movespeed buff (That goes away after your first attack) seems like it's only useful for getting to lane. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but it just seems like Rengar's new ult is very weak.

To answer your question of why we think Top Rengar is going to be weaker, here are a few of my thoughts.
1. Bonetooth Necklace now builds out of Hunter's Machete.
2. His E is a skillshot, so yes that does give him some range, but I'd imagine that most of the time, the opponent will just stand in/behind the creep wave and avoid his E. So now instead of being able to constantly harass the opponent, he can't do anything. Especially if Rengar is pushed to tower and is trying to farm under his tower. The opponent can just stand behind his creeps and out of tower range and harass Rengar without him being able to retaliate.
3. Armor/MR buff was taken out of his W. Although the AD reduction might make up for the armor buff, what happens if the other team has a Ryze top or something? Reduced AD won't help Rengar when laning vs a mage.

One last concern that I'm sure many people have been complaining about. I'm not sure how to word this, but I'll try my best. By making his empowered spells scale off his level, instead of the skill level, doesn't it take away the decision of what skill to max first? For example, Rengar can choose between whether he wants to max Q first and have all burst and no utility (Using empowered Q), or max E and have some burst, along with steady harass and strong stun. Most Rengar players usually choose to empower the skill that they are maxing first, so if Rengar chooses to max Q, using his empowered E will be less rewarding than using empowered Q. Because of this, the player has to consider the pros and cons of maxing Q over E, or E over Q. Making his empowered spells scale off overall level take this away.


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BrandNameZombie

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanceStubbs View Post
Yes Every assassin is well known for their stealth...

Like Irellia, Poppy, Xin...
TIL toning down his burst but giving him more sustained damage was meant to make him an assasin


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Rengar my love

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdragoon88 View Post
How about you read the front page with his first post where he DID reply to it.
Already read all of that and I'm not seeing it.


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NicolasWasTaken

Senior Member

08-18-2013

I feel like they are trying to force people to buy phage and triforce >_>

"qtrain" is not an assasin its a bruiser!!! people are concerned about the stealth and not about he beign forced into a freking bruiserrrr!!!


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BrandNameZombie

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PStyle View Post
Serious question here:
How is Rengar's proposed ult change (8/16) not just a weaker version of Master Yi's ult? Based on your description, it seems like his ult just gives movespeed and the ability to jump on his first attack. And then he loses the movespeed. Meanwhile, Master Yi gets movespeed, immunity to slows, and retains the buff even after his first attack? And the ability to reset his cooldowns? Sure, Rengar's ult probably lasts 2x as long as Yi's ult, but having a 28 second long movespeed buff (That goes away after your first attack) seems like it's only useful for getting to lane. I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but it just seems like Rengar's new ult is very weak.

To answer your question of why we think Top Rengar is going to be weaker, here are a few of my thoughts.
1. Bonetooth Necklace now builds out of Hunter's Machete.
2. His E is a skillshot, so yes that does give him some range, but I'd imagine that most of the time, the opponent will just stand in/behind the creep wave and avoid his E. So now instead of being able to constantly harass the opponent, he can't do anything. Especially if Rengar is pushed to tower and is trying to farm under his tower. The opponent can just stand behind his creeps and out of tower range and harass Rengar without him being able to retaliate.
3. Armor/MR buff was taken out of his W. Although the AD reduction might make up for the armor buff, what happens if the other team has a Ryze top or something? Reduced AD won't help Rengar when laning vs a mage.

One last concern that I'm sure many people have been complaining about. I'm not sure how to word this, but I'll try my best. By making his empowered spells scale off his level, instead of the skill level, doesn't it take away the decision of what skill to max first? For example, Rengar can choose between whether he wants to max Q first and have all burst and no utility (Using empowered Q), or max E and have some burst, along with steady harass and strong stun. Most Rengar players usually choose to empower the skill that they are maxing first, so if Rengar chooses to max Q, using his empowered E will be less rewarding than using empowered Q. Because of this, the player has to consider the pros and cons of maxing Q over E, or E over Q. Making his empowered spells scale off overall level take this away.
his E is vastly better for laning and yes the ad reduction can be useful against a mage just to a lesser extent

Rengar already zones his opponent by being a better duelist and jumping on them from the bushes. if the enemy is on the far side of the wave from side bush to avoid his E he is more vulnerable to ganks. Due to the AD reduction they are unlikely to attempt a duel to prevent bola zoning

against mages he will take DRASTICALLY less damage from minions due to reducing the damage they do to almost nothing. allowing him to all in them much more often(which they hate) basic attacks are also as strong as lvl 1 spells on most mages so the reduction helps deal with them as well.

the lvl scaling on ferocity spreads out the power on his kit. now i can max e for poke while still being able to use the bonus attack speed or scaled up ad reduction on a ferocity Q/W to win duels. as well as being able to max Q for better burst while still being able to waveclear with W when splitpushing/farming. this makes Rengar less 1 dimensional as like with viktor(augment death) people will always max what they discover to work best in most cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMQjjK-cso


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Ghostryker

Junior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
So i wanted to talk to you guys about our good ol' Stabtabby, Rengar.
I FRIGGIN LOVE what you're saying here.
I love the direction you're talking about going in.
More bruiser, less assassin sounds exactly right for someone with his look, style and honestly..
what his kit looks like it was always meant to be.

Rengar is and has always been my favorite champ in theory...but his kit was a bit too scattered.
I really think this new direction is the ideal one despite the negative reaction.
Rengar's history is a tricky one. From OP to UP and back and forth.
People seemed to love to hate him and will fight to make him a certain way only to see him banned from every match.

I don't generally post on forums but for this I had to speak up.


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Furi Kuri

Member

08-18-2013

The thing is Rengar players, and Karma players never asked for your reworks. WE DON'T WANT THEM!


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Raiyn

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezerforhire View Post
his E is vastly better for laning and yes the ad reduction can be useful against a mage just to a lesser extent

Rengar already zones his opponent by being a better duelist and jumping on them from the bushes. if the enemy is on the far side of the wave from side bush to avoid his E he is more vulnerable to ganks. Due to the AD reduction they are unlikely to attempt a duel to prevent bola zoning

against mages he will take DRASTICALLY less damage from minions due to reducing the damage they do to almost nothing. allowing him to all in them much more often(which they hate) basic attacks are also as strong as lvl 1 spells on most mages so the reduction helps deal with them as well.

the lvl scaling on ferocity spreads out the power on his kit. now i can max e for poke while still being able to use the bonus attack speed or scaled up ad reduction on a ferocity Q/W to win duels. as well as being able to max Q for better burst while still being able to waveclear with W when splitpushing/farming. this makes Rengar less 1 dimensional as like with viktor(augment death) people will always max what they discover to work best in most cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMQjjK-cso
All I read here was a load of nonsense.

If you're playing properly against Rengar you've done two things 1) warded the brush 2) warded the map such that being close to the river is actually advantageous because now you have river vision and other brush vision (if blue side) if purple side you are, like all top laners slightly screwed, basically deal with it is what riot says about that

In regards to your comment on ad reduction...yes mages aa are technically spells. No no mage will ever attempt to duel rengar anyways early because that's just stupid. But guess what rengsr jumps from a brush? Aa spellcast walk away. He can't do anything about that because you're too far away in any case from his brush jump. You think ad reduction is useful for dueling creep waves? Are you nuts? Who duels top lane in a creep wave unless you have the cannon minion early? Lets even say you're right...

What about late game? What good is ad reduction then? Its garbage on tryn and trundle bc its a garbage concept! To be effective it has to reduce a lot of ad but doing by riots logic is toxic bc then the adc cant fight bc they do no damage when built I.e. into botrk. 80 ad reduction aoe? That doesn't sound adc breaking? Ok fine 50? 50 is useless. 65? Ehhh seseems too much my counterplay is to build more dmg or wait...waiting isn't fun

Basically what everyone keeps trying to get through to scarizard and what amazingly he's not getting is that Rengar is the predator and the predator is stealthy slightly tanky (as he is now with armor/mr) and overall badass and not a knife cat lmao.

I can't even believe rengar is considered toxic when uou have things like singed split push tryn split push vayne not building ad and going pure AS and utility like qss early. Sion 1.5 s target stun, thresh latern being virtually unblockable. God the list is longer than wahh rengar killed me bc I didny have a supporsupport with oracles or ga or a vision ward. And wahh rengar is super fed.....well maybe he's fed bc you diddidn't pick panth or jax against him and mb just mb your top laner built 0 armor and fed him with no jungler interference dun dun dun