A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkara73 View Post
I guess I can deal with the removal of stealth. All I ask though is that no matter what you do in the rework I want you to the best of your abilities to at least try to incorporate his stealth into the rework. Just knowing that you at least tried to give him that awesome stealth would make me a happy Rengar player.
Likely that this will get buried along with my previous post this morning - there's an issue with Dev Tracker showing my post as a 'next riot' one to navigate to, but -

I have an idea that i think can really capture the best of both worlds, as well as make Rengar players feel their ultimate is unique. While i can confirm this iteration of the ult has tested well in terms of functionality for the champion, i totally get the whole argument that his identity would be changed and that has a lot of value for players.

I'm going to head in to the office tomorrow and see if i can't get it hooked up before the playtest on Monday, and also pick the brains of other designers to see if i'm not walking into some obvious missteps - just skyped Wav3break about it and he's super pumped about it as well.

As soon as i have it hooked up and functional i'll post a tooltip here for y'all to see and get your feelings. Have to say though, i think this could be really cool.


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Berserk Knight

Junior Member

08-17-2013

Just give his ult a cheap imitation of Eve's stealth, but with a larger detection radius that's virtually equal to a champion's sight range.

He can ignore sight wards and minion waves to get moderately close, but once he's within your sight range, he's completely visible and you can react accordingly.


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Outworld

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berserk Knight View Post
Just give his ult a cheap imitation of Eve's stealth, but with a larger detection radius that's virtually equal to a champion's sight range.

He can ignore sight wards and minion waves to get moderately close, but once he's within your sight range, he's completely visible and you can react accordingly.
"Nawp, we turn ult into summoner spell ghost, gg fix'd"


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Break Things 88

Junior Member

08-17-2013

This is exactly why they don't like to share every single tidbit with everyone before major testing. No one has even tried the changes yet and they are acting like Scarizard drowning puppies. Nothing has finalized, this is the point of testing. If you want to be part of the development process act accordingly. Respond with some respect. You can tell people you don't like changes with some civility. Many of the players here sound like 8 year old throwing temper tantrums. This is a well polished constantly rebalanced free game, and you act like they are breaking into your house and berating your mother. Pretty silly if you ask me.


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Muggshott

Senior Member

08-17-2013

I'm sure a lot of people are bugged by a lot of aspects of these changes... but something really stands out to me. Bonetooth Necklace.

Don't get me wrong, I dislike the premise of it encouraging a role or position on the map to any degree so the Machete passive bugs me quite a bit (dislike is a rather strong word for me as I tend to say "don't like"). However, I have to say I'm more irked at the trophy threshold system which sets the rewards at seemingly arbitrary points. A trophy hunter's third kill is no more important that its second or seventh unless it's a particularly difficult opponent. It makes me question why the necklace thematically evolves at those arbitrary points without an underlying reward for the build. As such, I have a suggestion I haven't really seen anyone make in this thread: give a stacking bonus per trophy. I don't mean the threshold bonuses "look why I did" features, I mean a building show of confidence in the vein of the existing snowball Sword of the Occult or Mejai Soulstealer.

My proposition is that the increased leap range be 10 per stack on the Bonetooth Necklace rather than arbitrarily kicking in at 6 or 9 kills. It's slightly less noticeable, but builds to the same point and makes every kills and assist feel more impactful even if the effect itself feels less so. Yes, this would be an overall nerf to the item without replacing the leap bonus with something, but these odd "I made it" gains make the kills feel less like trophies and more like participation ribbons.

But seriously, drop the machete. I'd already be in the jungle if that's where I wanted to be.


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Bakabridget

Senior Member

08-17-2013

I don't even play rengar, but these changes sound really boring and generic.


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Talohmiir

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talohmiir View Post
What if rather than using full stealth where you are invisible to the enemy team, do a cloaking-type thingy. Everone loves the stealth aspect, but the warning/counterplay sucks for it. Why not just make him partially transparent, like a ghost. That way he could still be seen, but in the crazy team fights he could also be overlooked until it was too late. I understand he is based off several things, but with the Predator similarities, it would also work great. Think about it. You are in mid and the enemy Rengar hasn't harrassed you and is over do. You scroll up to the topside of a warded river. You don't see him, at first, but then you see an awkward blur of motion and realize Rengar ulted and his heading your way fast. That fear would be fun for both the Rengar player and his target. It would still give the hardcore Rengar fans like myself that stealth feel, but with a certain amount of counterplay since he's not completely invisible, but rather just a odd blur like looking at something threw a drop of water. This would be awesome and if you guys could, you should shoot for having a go at it in testing. Just to let us know what you think.
So does this have a chance in hell? It would be awesome for both sides. Your thoughts on it Scarizard?


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Hardinger

Senior Member

08-18-2013

The fact that Scarizard chooses to reply to the minority that are okay with the removal of Rengar's stealth is pretty infuriating, in my opinion.

I'm so sick of every aspect of this thread, I just wish it was closed and forgotten about.


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Talohmiir

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Rather than complaining and ripping on the Riot guys (Scar, Xel, and Wav3) and saying that they are messing up. Give your thoughts why, and any ideas you have, otherwise you're just a troll. As for those saying not to freak out because they haven't done all of the testing.... the whole purpose of these type of forums is to find great ideas in advance. I've seen a lot of good suggestions in later posts. If Riot didn't see the suggestion that yelled "WINNING" for what they were looking for on page X because they quit reading on page H, then when they finally got back to reading them and saw X, they may go, "Why the hell didn't we see this earlier." It's all about finding the best ideas sooner rather than later so that testing and waiting doesn't have to take so long.


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Whyu

Senior Member

08-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Likely that this will get buried along with my previous post this morning - there's an issue with Dev Tracker showing my post as a 'next riot' one to navigate to, but -

I have an idea that i think can really capture the best of both worlds, as well as make Rengar players feel their ultimate is unique. While i can confirm this iteration of the ult has tested well in terms of functionality for the champion, i totally get the whole argument that his identity would be changed and that has a lot of value for players.

I'm going to head in to the office tomorrow and see if i can't get it hooked up before the playtest on Monday, and also pick the brains of other designers to see if i'm not walking into some obvious missteps - just skyped Wav3break about it and he's super pumped about it as well.

As soon as i have it hooked up and functional i'll post a tooltip here for y'all to see and get your feelings. Have to say though, i think this could be really cool.

what if when you use Rengar's ult with any levels in ferocity you gain X/2 (that is half x) seconds of stealth? Where X is the levels of Ferocity consumed by Rengar's ult?

This would mean that you could still have some stealth with Rengar but it would be conditional, requires an additional cost (in ferocity), and be quite limited duration (so that Rengar couldn't go in assassinate and get a free out with his ult).

I think it would allow Rengar to further exploit moments of opportunity, retain his pridestalker theme, while still allowing for reasonable counter-play (since at most it would only be 2.5 seconds of stealth which shouldn't be enough for Rengar to engage and get out again safely - and you should be able to judge how much stealth Rengar should have by the levels of Ferocity he has).

What do people think?