A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Fae Sorceres

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerglinator View Post
She's picked more than she was, she's used competitively, people don't mock her anymore. Please stop.
You keep bringing this up. She's won 0 games, and was effective in 0 as well. Please stop defending him.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
Really?

Who doesn't mock her pls?

Commentators mocked her jungle in her EU debut - Out of the 5(I believe) times she was played in the EU games she lost 4, won 1. Won that one game too I remember because her team was fed, not because of her plays.

Second...EVERY SINGLE KARMA MAIN/PLAYER finds karma's new design to be BORING AND TASTELESS.

Q SPAM ALL DAY. W USELESS AND BORING

E UTILITY AND BORING.

Karma is a Q bot, that's all now.

I guess its OK if Rengar becomes a Q train bot too right? Lets remove all champion diversity! YAY!
I don't see the "Who's Karma?" posts anymore. And getting picked 5 times is actually pretty good, to be honest. Did you prefer her old "Never picked ever" status?

I used to use Karma before the rework. I liked her before. I don't anymore. That doesn't mean that no one else does. There are people who do like the new Karma. But screw those guys, right? Screw having a chance of being picked ever! Let's welcome the "who's Karma" trend again, because that's MUCH better!

Results were attained through the Karma rework. They might not be the results I like, but it was successful. If you want to deny that, be my guest.


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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-17-2013

anyway this thread is about our knifecat and how he is being cut open and having his insides pulled out leaving him a weak ad bruiser with a crappy yi ult, a crappy (generic basic melee ability) for his q, (geneic slow/stun only skillshot now) for his e and his w is just derpy


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RadiantWings

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Senior Member

08-17-2013

So the insanely advertised Karma rework with a complete makeover made Karma more popular? Who knew that putting her on the spotlight would increase her pickrate?

This thing that's happening to Rengar is just going to butcher him. Even if they shovel buff after buff the same way they did with Karma, Rengar is never going to feel the same.

Also, Rioters don't disagree with eachother on matters like this it would be bad PR. Sorry Xelnath, but I can't take you seriously when your job demands that you be a Yes-man to any form of change.


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teh d wreck

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Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Thrill of the Hunt
-Cooldown decreased
-No longer plays Voice Over or gives an Icon to enemies within Rengar's sight/detection range
-Consumes current Ferocity on cast - each point of Ferocity consumed increases the Duration of Thrill of the Hunt by 1 second.
-No longer stealths Rengar for the duration
-Duration greatly increased, scales with ult rank
-Movement Speed increased
-Rengar's first basic attack while in Thrill of the Hunt will cause him to leap at his target - Rengar retains the Movement Speed increase from Thrill of the Hunt for 3 seconds after leaping.
...Just bought Rengar a few days ago and am finding his kit enthralling. The removal of stealth AND sight detection just made my heart sink. That to me, is actually the coolest part about the champion, AND the whole 'predator' lore and the movies which LoL is referencing. Wtf Riot how can you remove the most ICONIC part of this champion? Wow. I'm just disappointed.


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Rengar NA View Post
You keep bringing this up. She's won 0 games, and was effective in 0 as well. Please stop defending him.
She won one. That's a lot more wins than Old Karma got. All I'm doing is defending facts, and the fact is that the Karma rework got positive results in comparison to before. But hey, if insisting that she's a lot worse for actually not being a troll pick now, and can somehow revert her with that, I'll be totally happy with that. Can't guarantee others will be, though.


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PhoenixSlayer13

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raherin View Post
...Just bought Rengar a few days ago and am finding his kit enthralling. The removal of stealth AND sight detection just made my heart sink. That to me, is actually the coolest part about the champion, AND the whole 'predator' lore and the movies which LoL is referencing. Wtf Riot how can you remove the most ICONIC part of this champion? Wow. I'm just disappointed.
The sight detection is still there.


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Holy Malevolence

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn View Post
What do you know about balance? Or abuse of skills or champions in a ranked setting? You have less than 20 ranked games, top it off you're in a low ELO where they cry about Master Yi OP or Blitzcrank Op, get some cc and dodge a pull geez.

You can't even say you know about your own ELOs strengths or its weaknesses.

I bet you haven't seen a Rengar ever in your 20 games of ranked.

OH NO NORMAL GAMES RENGAR OP!!!! Balance league around normals PLSSSSS.

Do you know where Rengar is a "problem"? Its in Plat, Diamond and Challenger...and its only when he is counterpicked never first picked. If you FP Rengar in these ELOs I promise you someone will pick pantheon or Jax and proceed to demolish you in lane.
------------

Ok now lets assume you have a valid opinion - Ferocity is a bad design.

What makes it bad?
Its an opportunity cost design. Does that mean Renekton's fury design is bad? Really? Making choices is bad?

Or is it bad because it makes his other abilities have to be weaker? Well geez Vlad must be a terrible hero because his ult amps his ability damage, this must mean w/o his ultimate his regular abilities are terrible!

Hopefully you can see the flaw in whatever argument you were trying to make with "ferocity is bad design". If not? Oh well, you aren't in a position in any case to speak about balance at all. You haven't played this game to know, its just that simple.
More of an observer than a player.
And elo decay's a ***** like naught else. Where am I at again? I haven't played ranked in ages and it's costed me a ton of leagues. Not that I particularly care.

But what do I know about balance? What I've observed over multiple years of observing imbalancing trends, noting what makes champions balanced and what makes them absolute train wrecks. And Rengar has been plainly observed to be a train wreck among train wrecks.
Do you wish to know why?
It can be attributed to two reasons. The first is his ultimate.


You know Eve and Twitch?
You remember before their remakes?
Remember why they had to be remade?
It's because of stealth. Stealth has proven to be a horrible mechanic to give most champions, either being entirely too easily countered or plain bull****. It was eventually revealed that the only methods to balance stealth were having it be an extremely short duration ability or for the ability to reveal that you're there while in use.
Ala every champion with stealth who doesn't have stealth related balance problems. It's something that's been more or less proven.

But then Rengar comes in, full force old fashioned stealth with a leap attached.
Lets just say I wasn't surprised to find that he got nerfed into the ground multiple times.
It had been proven multiple times that, in terms of how to handle stealth, the type they gave Rengar was a horrible idea. Buuuuut they still released him.
Pity.



Anywho, the second is......
I believe Hashishin referred to it as "Cheese", but the terminology I'll use is "Abuse case".
Rengar is a champion who is literally made and broken by a multitude of ridiculous and illogical abuse cases. It's a far less apparent problem than the blatant horrible idea that is his ultimate but fsck.
The thing about champions is that you have to balance them for the best case scenario if you don't want them to be balance problems. Certain champions, like Jayce's double W instant wrecking towers or Rengar utilizing triple Q, find this to be problematic.
The mere fact that they can do this means that, when balancing them, you have to assume they will. If you don't assume Rengar can triple Q, abuse a 2.0 AP ratio, 100-0 at level one via ferocity abuse, or any of the abuse cases he had, he's going to be a huge problem.
He was a huge problem. Repeatedly. They literally can't make most of his kit worth using because every so often, he could pull off this ridiculous triple Q which would eradicate everything.
Meaning that he's either breaking the game, or he's worthless.
It's the same as with Vlad, Xin, Irelia, and all the like. A single part of the overall champion is capable of being outright abused which causes them to be neigh incapable of balance.
The problem in Rengar's case is Ferocity. And always has. Rengar is a champion who is nothing but abuse cases. And that isn't good design.


Rengar is a problem. He's a huge ****ing problem and has proven that he is multiple times.


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The Italian Ice

Senior Member

08-17-2013

The one thing to remember is that these changes are at least tenative (meaning subject to change). If you read the "Let's Talk about Xerath" thread, Xelnath said that he was going to implement an auto-attack replacer during his Locus of Power, a change which didn't carry over. These changes could make it, but might not. Personally, I still like stealth with a global VO warning, sort of like how Paranoia works currently (overextended and alone? You'd drop your fudge if you heard Rengar roar out of nowhere), but that's just me. Here's hoping the stealth returns, it was one of the fun aspects of Rengar.

Also, I may have just missed it or something, but do Empowered abilities have a set amount of damage per level (a la LeBlanc) or has this just not been implemented yet?


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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-17-2013

heres an idea for ya malevolence remove all gap closers too since not all champs have them and they get abused, all pulls from champs like blits and thresh, all shield abilities since thats bs for adcs who cant kill because of it. all global range ults so much abuse from karthas and soraka, stop all ults and abilities that cause champ to be immune to slows and stuns, olaf just got shot again and yi just got hit too. is this better for ya, if ya want balance you got it