A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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TheDirtySwine

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Hi everyone,
Riot employee here... We are aware that some of you are worried that we nerfed the **** out of Rengar's kit. But trust me it's ok, we'll just call it a rework and not a nerf! Toodles!


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A Frisky Badger

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Member

08-16-2013

#scumbagRiot


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Barzany

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius01 View Post
NO NO NO as an avid rengar player this is a huge mistake, I honestly believe you're nerfing rengar even more, I read these changes and almost threw up from disbelief.
2 HUGE ISSUEs
Q) you said you want to keep his hunting playstle but you REMOVED STEALTH from his ultimate.
THE STEALTH WAS THE BEST PART, And was the best part of his kit for connection with a " hunter " feeling.
That is just a huge nerf overall.


Riot you need to realize rengar is not just played in the jungle, but mostly top lane.

Having said this, why is bone tooth now a Jungle item essentially??

And Finnaly: Since rengar is also played toplane, making bola strike a skills hit completely ERASES all lot of his poke/trade potential in a top matchup, you are just setting him up to get crushed in lane, you want him to be a jungled, But that's not how the majority of players like to play him!

Just my 2 Cents, if anyone disagrees feel free to counter my argument, ill respond for a good debate.

Just please, you're ruining the Rengar that players love, and I don't think these changes are for the better, AT ALL
I agree completely. Rengar is played TOP why the HELL DO YOU WANNA TURN HIM INTO A JUNGLER!?


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Xanru

Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by **** monkey View Post
Maybe I'm being ungrateful (should I be grateful for you guys addressing a problem within your job description?) or maybe I'm not understanding the changes, but why did you decide to do this to his ult? It no longer stealth, fine, I understand that the mechanic made balancing him iffy, not a problem. But what's the compensation? I mean, all you've done is turn it into a one time gap closer and a movespeed buff that most characters have as a regular ability with no other modifier? That prevents him from being kited how? And it's not like that one jump you get on Ult activation makes him likely to kill. He's still gonna get the crappy gold that junglers get, so it's not like he's gonna assassinate the carry or anything on that first jump. What's an Ezreal gotta do to get away? One E and then a 2 second long frozen fist-empowered q is all it takes to make Rengar laughably useless. It lasts longer? That's not gonna matter to Ezreal with Frozen Fist, Ashe Q/Ult, Varus aoe slow/ult, cait trap/net, Katarina E, Ziggs W/E and any other character that is halfway decent. Sure he'll grab a Malzahar or a Mordekaiser or Urgot, but how often do those guys get played? Here's a hint, as much as Rengar will be played with this rework.


Once again, please point out to me where I have erred or misread. Perhaps his ult has other properties that I skimmed over or you did not detail here that would alleviate this misconception I have.

edit:Frozen fist not Glacial Shroud
Nah nah nah, he'll jump on Malz then get silenced, zoned, space aids, suppressed before he can do anything meaningful, Urgot is just gonna switch places with him, wasting most of his remaining speed buff, and Morde is going to have a new pet.


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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barzany View Post
I agree completely. Rengar is played TOP why the HELL DO YOU WANNA TURN HIM INTO A JUNGLER!?
Because HE WAS INTENDED TO BE A JUNGLER, he was supposed to be a hunter not a top lane, so heres an idea, rework his history to make him scream demacia and join the garen jarvan shyvanna groups and just be another random fighter


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TheDirtySwine

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Good news everyone! Instead of giving damage to all the champions we decided that damage is too mainstream in MOBAs so instead we gave everyone tons more movement speed! Now you can all be racecars!


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inplane

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanru View Post
Nah nah nah, he'll jump on Malz the get silenced, zoned, space aids, suppressed before he can do anything meaningful, Urgot is just gonna switch places with him, wasting most of his remaining speed buff, and Morde is going to have a new pet.
This was why his stealth was invented...


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FollowUpTheQ

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Yayyyyy! Rengar is unplayable!
Seriously, what? Rengar wasn't exactly bad before this, but no champ in the league deserves this massive of nerfs.
Rengar now lacks the tankiness to do things due to W nerf, and can't assassinate because of ult nerfs.
But hey! He can move quickly!
I wasn't aware that having Ghost as an ult was considered great.
Rengar is unplayable in top lane now: Can't poke with E against a decent opponent because it's a skillshot and minions exist.
Rengar only works in the jungle now.
But as soon as teamfights start happening, he is useless.
Oh but hey, he can stay in the jungle the whole game and get lots of money to buy his now-useless bonetooth.


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TheDirtySwine

Senior Member

08-16-2013

At Riot we were afraid that rengar kept dying in teamfights so we buffed his movent speed to ensure that he could safely run away from them!


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Skaed

Senior Member

08-16-2013

@Scarizard

I Really, really do not like the removal of stealth on Rengar. He's very clearly influenced by the Predator, and the Predator's main characteristic is invisibility. It's extremely core to how I think of Rengar. Only in Eve, Twitch, and Shaco is the "stealth" characteristic more ingrained. I was totally fine with a "warning" given to your opponents when you ult, as long as the stealth remains. It's actually a cool way to freak your enemies out while they can't see you, really makes you feel like a powerful hunter. Even some Eve-type solution would be preferable to ZERO stealth.

The "instakill out of nowhere" abuse case isn't hard to fix by damage-based means. It's already a scenario limited to quite fed Rengars against squishy carries. Rengar can only really take advantage of it in the midgame, by lategame it's easily countered by tightly grouped 5v5s and Oracles. I'm not advocating for keeping it in the game, I'm just putting it in perspective. "Rengar 1 shot me" is not a valid balance concern if he's up 7,000 gold and 6 levels, for instance. At some point, you have to draw the line.

Crazy movespeed isn't a compensation I like. It's more generic, not at all "sneaky." Pure speed assassin is a theme covered pretty well by Master Yi. To top it all off, it leaves Rengar looking much, much weaker in teamfights if he's fully visible and squishier than ever. Particularly if his Bola only hits the first target in a line. Think of how awkward the old Shyvana E or Lee Sin's Q are in teamfights. You're hitting his burst, survivability, and stealth - his teamfighting was weak to begin with. Imagine how easy Master Yi would be to blow up if he couldn't dodge spells with Q and W, and wasn't slow immune.

TBH, balance concerns to me are secondary though. Stealth is THE main part of his kit that makes Rengar iconic to me. I'm ok with limiting it in pretty major ways, we don't want Eve 1.0 back, but removing it completely kills his theme, in my opinion.