A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Ivy Tiger

Junior Member

08-16-2013

Hi Scarizard,
I like what you are doing with these updates. I read all your recent posts and I'm not sure if I am missing something or not. Did you say anything about his Q Ability? Im not asking about its specific info, but if you said anything about it yet or not. Thanks!


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Ok, read the full post, It had me itching with excitement until the end, left me with some concern and thought. So, ill give my concerns and questions regarding some of these changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Update time!

Bonetooth Necklace
10 AD, 1 AD/Level
Recipe: Hunter's Machete + Long Sword + 100g
PASSIVE: 20% Increased damage to monsters
3 Stacks: Rengar gains Flat Movement Speed while out of combat, or while in brush
6 Stacks: Leap range increased
9 Stacks: Thrill of the Hunt lasts X seconds longer
14 Stacks: Rengar gains % Movement speed for 2.5 seconds upon exiting brush
Ok, i like the effects. However, you said BTN would give MORE ad than it would currently on live. On Live at lv 18 it gives 41 AD (5+36). however, now it will only give 28 AD (10+18), why did you nerf the AD? I can see people not buying this now, especially for lategame, where they will favor damage over utility
Considering that while these changes are awsome, none of them boost his damage:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
AD on BTN is actually buffed, simply due to the Recipe being Long Sword + Hunters + 100g - it kind of has to have 10 AD from the Sword alone.
Are you going to HIGHLY raise his AD base level stat and scaling damage to compensate?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Battle Roar
-No Longer grants Armor/Magic Resistance
-Enemies hit with Battle Roar have their Attack Damage reduced
Flat out love this. I do however wish the pitiful magic damage on Rengar's W could be replaced with something that would be more usefull, such as an AD boost/slow/damage reduction or anything. Either that, or buff its damage, make it AD damage, and maybe give it a scaling, cuz both in lane and lategame i can barely see it damaging anything but minions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Bola Strike
-Is now a skillshot
-Increased Range
OMFG, THANK YOU Wav3Break. And you were saying earlier that melee skillshots felt bad XP haha. Really looking forward to seing this one. One concern/question: can minions block the skillshot? If not, i do belive the ability need some buff to compensate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
And for the big one:
Thrill of the Hunt
-Cooldown decreased
-No longer plays Voice Over or gives an Icon to enemies within Rengar's sight/detection range
-Consumes current Ferocity on cast - each point of Ferocity consumed increases the Duration of Thrill of the Hunt by 1 second.
-No longer stealths Rengar for the duration
-Duration greatly increased, scales with ult rank
-Movement Speed increased
-Rengar's first basic attack while in Thrill of the Hunt will cause him to leap at his target - Rengar retains the Movement Speed increase from Thrill of the Hunt for 3 seconds after leaping.
Ok, this is the one that made me frown. However, after a while of thinking about it, i realised the change will make him a speeding bullet and is actually preety powerfull. However, it still leaves me kindoff... dissapointed.

I feel like your removing part of Rengar's soul. I belive that the stealth part of him was part of his FEEL, clearly he is meant to be a homage to the Predator Alien, and thats always what Rengar provided me; to feel like a predator. Im not sure whether he will be more powerfull without his stealth than with it, to be honest, id need to try it out and see how it handles in actual situations, but as far as aesthetics go, it feels like Rengar is loosing a unique part of his image and art, which was to go invis, rather than just be given a Ghost on a shorter cooldown and with a reveal.

I actually liked the idea of a warning over people's heads. Its a moment of "Oh ****" for the enemy, its what i feel everytime i play Nocturne and ult, it lets everyone in the map know: Someone is about to get ****ed.

Ill have to wait and see how it plays out in PBE. Hopefully you wont hog him too long. On a side note, what kind of buffs are you going to give to his Base stats? Rengar is not a very formidable bruiserish kind of champion with his current HP scaling.

Edit(responce to Xel):
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Darklarik View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I was really skeptical about these changes. In particular, when I saw them on paper, I didn't like the change to a skill-shot on E or the stealth removal on R.
... then ....
-------------------
"ITS NOT ABOUT THE STEALTH! ITS ABOUT SENDING A MESSAGE!"

Ok enough Joker references. What i mean by this is Aesthetics. Rengar has always been tailored a homage to the predator, while this change may better for him powerwise, it ruins his image, and feel.

I was really looking forward to trying out the Stealth+warning system, Letting the enemy know they are screwed moments before you gut them would have made for a great predator feel.
Marking Scarizard's post since it dosent have the Riot responce slider Pgs(220,223,243,271,272,289,291,312,316)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Gonna give another post before i finish for the night since it's late -


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-16-2013

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It's.....so Beautiful.




Oh how I envy the people on PBE SoonTM



How about Tier 3 (or 4) gives him some added bonus to his abilities?

Like say.....Q has the AoE passive from Hydra, W will slow the enemy as well as lower their AD, and E has him throw 2-3 bolo (like Kha'Zix evolve W)


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Chaosos

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Is rengar splitpush looking too strong? Because it seems that a large MS bonus would be really strong in combination with the new Q chain.


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Tycosnh

Junior Member

08-16-2013

I was very excited to read the changes today, I really was. This is just...absurd.

You are neutering this lion so much that he is basically a house cat at this point. You say that his damage is nerfed, he now has NO tankiness, and now he cannot even go invis. I don't know who you have been talking to but the invis part was kinda a big deal. The movement speed was just a bonus, the invis was the whole part of the ult. So what? Now he just runs fast? We have champions that run really fast, we don't have a champ that runs fast AND is invisible. You say you want him to be a jungler, but you get rid of his ward escaping abilities AKA being able to bypass wards while being invis. I just don't see how this is a solution. There were MUCH better suggestions on what to do with his ult other than, in my opinion, breaking it and making it less original. When I think cat I think stealthy and agile. I do NOT think really fast brute force running to them when they can see you. This is just crazy.


The bola idea is actually pretty good, as long as its range gets increased, and the speed of the bola is as well.

All I have to say on the bonetooth is it's gold efficiency is terrible, just awful. Please, tell me when I would buy this item? When? I can't think of a reason to buy it, maybe if it did not take up an item slot, but otherwise it's so inefficient.

The W changes are bad as well. Do you what makes an assassin work? He has a way to get out. Zed has one, Kha'zix has one. You know what Rengar has? An armor and MR buff so he can at least MAYBE live while he has no way to escape. He is going to die to AOE in about two seconds now, along with his damage nerfed. This whole "rework" is just starting to sound like a nerf party to me. I am very disappointed in this, and I've been playing Rengar since release, I still do.


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Jbels

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tycosnh View Post
We have champions that run really fast, we don't have a champ that runs fast AND is invisible.
Why you gotta hurt Talon's feelings, man? = (


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonstrike45 View Post
2) Does Rengar continue to generate ferocity in his ult after he leaps onto his target? This is something I would like, although at a slower rate if necessary, because it allows continual chase and fighting power during ult (like how Renekton gets when his ult generates fury per second for the entire duration).
2. Unlikely that we'd go with this - it doesn't take very much time for him to generate his ferocity while in R, and the duration of it is so long already (12-18s base currently, with the potential to get all the way up to 28 seconds!) that we really want you to relish the feeling of hunting and stalking, since you'll have vision all this time. If you really need to Rocket-boost before your Fury is generated fully, it's likely that it's more important you make it to your target rather than have full ferocity when you get there (it's also more likely you'll still have a few points built up once you get there, so this hasn't been a particular worry).
Wow wow, this is confusing. Are you saying that he no Longer Generates ferocity in his ult?
Now ive gone from being torn over the ult changes to downright not liking them. Without ferocity how is Rengar suppose to start a Q train? Or deal damage AT ALL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightdragoon88 View Post
Ummm...he still gains ferocity when he ults.

He just loses all he has at the start of the ult to increase it time and then he gains them back like how his ult is now.
The wording is kind of weird. I was ok with it consuming his Ferocity on start IF it generates it back, which is why i would like clarification


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Darklarik View Post
Wow wow. Now ive gone from being torn over the ult changes to downright not liking them. Without ferocity how is Rengar suppose to start a Q train? Or deal damage AT ALL?

The way im imaging this in a teamfight is he ults, wastes all his ferocity, jumps on a target, and QWs them (gaining 2 ferocity), Es (likely not hitting his target in the confusion of a teamfight), and the does what? I take back my opinion on my previous post about the ult, i do not like this change at all. Your chucking his damage output and instead replacing his ult with a Ghost until he AA. I dont doubt ill be able to catch a target, what im doubting now is whether ill be able to do anything to it once ive caught it!


Ummm...he still gains ferocity when he ults.

He just loses all he has at the start of the ult to increase it time and then he gains them back like how his ult is now.


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A Retarded Clown

Senior Member

08-16-2013

I'm sorry but this is just stupid. REMOVING the stealth entirely?

You hardly have any stealth champions and those are some of the most fun to play (the most actually) when setting up, why cripple this mechanic needlessly especially when it is counterable.

Do we see rengar/shaco/teemo dominating top tier play? Hell no. Twitch and Eve are getitng there but its more for their abilities than their stealth especially on twitch, they are balanced but picked for the unique aspect they bring and you're decimating that for some generic move speed?

This ult you've described is a modified version of what WW's e should be not what rengar's ult should become. Especially when you are looking to remove his assasination power


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Ånxîety

Member

08-16-2013

I'm sorry but making E a skillshot is one of the most stupidest things I
ever read. UNLESS it goes through minions, we need this changed back.
Sometimes you have to max E on rengar to poke the champs down before
going in. You can't do that if they hide behind minions.. Also R no longer stealth? That was the fun part about rengar.. We should be allowed to have a free refund on Rengar, since they are basically making him another champion thats boring. The stealth played a big factor in the fun. Ulting to go find a jungler doing his buff, or somebody out of position felt great and rewarding when you got a kill. But if you messed up, you pay for it in death.

Time to refund Rengar. Thanks for ruining one of my favorite champions for good this time. I don't even care if this some how makes him stronger. The fact is I bought Rengar for his fun mechanics. And you are taking out the best part to me..

Only a ****ing idiot would dislike my comment. oh wait, that's half the community.