Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Pynque

Member

08-12-2013

So one thing I notice a lot of as I read through this behemoth of a thread is that people either loving his perma slow, or hating it. Personally I think Skarner has Tons of counterplay so his perma slow should be left alone since, afterall, he needs to catch you before he can permaslow you and with all the "dash" mechanics currently available in game its really not that hard to get away or not be cought by him. Meanwhile the slow is pretty much essential to his kit's effectiveness because he doesn't have a low cd closer like 90% of all his targets do have.

@Riot: Since you are apparently going to remove his perma slow I think you then also need to look at one specific other jungler who can do the same things as skarner (aka catch up to you with a speed up, slow you then stick to you like glue even through a flash)... because the slow is from range... hes this obnoxious little cretin who rides a big fluffy Monsters Inc reject....


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Justaco

Senior Member

08-12-2013

While I liked his permaslow, it might be for the best that he lost it. He is still getting some kind of slow on his e, so it balances that out. Plus, now that his q is getting an attack speed buff, it can synergize with his passive and probably be able to land multiple slows in a fight.


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Unique Traveler

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey guys, sorry for the long silence. Stuff is going really well for Skarner over here, and I may have more updates soon. We have done a bunch of playtests on the new kit and are getting lots of good feedback.

Coupling the attack speed with the Q has been super well received. It feels very natural and his ramping threat/brawling feels stronger than ever.

W speed increase has also been very effective in making him get into fights more consistently but not without some effort still.

E is a mixed bag, and we are still testing around with a few different versions of the spell. Some liked the on next hit version of the ability, some were lukewarm to it. I'll update if we come to any resolutions. I have seen a few good ideas on here for the E as well that I might try out.

The changes to R have been 100% awesometown. Everyone feels like it is more consistent and meeting the players expectations when they activate the ability.

I too would like some new Skarner skins... I'll see what we can do.

Well, if you haven't thought of this for Skarner, why have him have part scorpion for one of his skills? Scorpions tend to poison people, maybe his E could be some DoT inflicted from his crystals.


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Remni Strath

Junior Member

08-12-2013

You know the funny thing with this is, even after the slow gets pushed to his E, you can still run a Gauntlet/Mallet on him and his Q will still be perma-slowing due to spamming/atk speed


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Nightmanflock

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Member

08-12-2013

Okay, so, I love Skarner, and he was my main go to champion throughout season 2, but he suffers from a few major things in season 3 that are more pronounced now.

Skarner, on the whole, needs a lot of stats to be viable as more than a walking ult, and he even needs a few items to be that. In season 2, Skarner could open with a regrowth pendant and have a philo stone at about 3 minutes. Heart of gold often followed boots, and then upgrading the philo stone to shurelya's if possible not too long after hitting 6, or if it's too late going for some quick ganks going for some resists in aegis or frozen heart or whatever else.

In season 3, you must start machete. This makes it so that skarner is less healthy in the jungle, and the monsters do more damage. This results in MUCH longer delay before getting to his gold per 10 items which pronounces a few key things. Successful skarner play in the jungle relied a lot around getting to a shurelya's and/or boots of mobility EARLY to capitalize on that window right after hitting 6 where he has a lot of power to try to get the gold he needs to be tanky enough to survive in a fight long enough to successfully lock down a priority target and bring them into his team. In season 3, getting the amount of tankiness you need to survive as skarner requires a TON of successful ganks, because of how expensive some needed items are and the lowered extra gold over time from having only a philo stone with no heart of gold and not being able to get said philo stone until much later, sometimes not even having time to get any passive gold from it before needing to upgrade into shurelya's.

My input on changes so far is as follows:
Q: I love the fact that bonus attack speed is gained with successive q strikes. That's very intuitive and rewards the skarner player for being where he belongs, in the melee, soaking up damage for his team and hopefully laying down some himself. The loss of the slow I worry about because that was the most defining thing about him as a champion after his ultimate.

W: I was initially concerned when there wasn't going to be attack speed in the kit because that is absolutely necessary on him for jungle clears early game. Moving it to q and increasing the shield and move speed amount is very cool, and I like that. What I don't like is that I feel like it lost some counterply for the opposing team now, because they gain absolutely nothing from popping your shield. This means that if skarner is built mostly tanky and doesn't have a lot of damage, which is just about always as a jungler, there is almost literally no reason to pay any attention to him in a fight. If he's sufficiently tanky, he has no damage, ignore and kill the rest of the team. His crowd control is only able to be applied to one target with the e change, so I fear he'll fall by the wayside again if he can't pull off some really impressive early game gambits.

E: I like the changes so far to this, primarily because if you played jungle skarner you didn't even take a single point in e in most of your games. It cost too much mana and the heal amount was negligible at best unless you built ap with your non existant gold income. He might as well have only had 2 abilities and an ult. THe new e sounds like it will be more cohesive in his kit, but I am concerned that the slow won't be powerful enough. Lasting for 3 seconds and having a 5 second minimum cooldown while only even being able to slow one target is a major hit to one of the largest things that gave skarner a place in a team composition, which was crowd control. With this cooldown, anyone with any kind of tenacity item or dash or any other kind of movement ability essentially won't care about your existance and without having an ult up skarner will walk away from every gank as a very sad scorpion. I'd need to test it, of course, but the theory of it doesn't quite sound like there's enough oomph with the amount of mobility you see on the average gank target.

I'd have loved to giver more imput sooner but I've been off the forums for awhile...


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AshraNashal

Senior Member

08-13-2013

Must keep Skarner alive and not forgotten about!


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RiotScruffy

Game Designer

08-13-2013
18 of 35 Riot Posts

Hey all, back with some more details. We're trying out an iteration of the E that is a bit more like the old E in usage but there are some other changes that help it fit nicely into his new gameplay pattern.

-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s

The goals here were to retain the fun and diverse gameplay of the line nuke. The free targeting and skillshot feel of the E is a nice change of pace from Skarner's other melee focused abilities. We're also trying a longer/slow/less wide projectile so that targets of the E have the opportunity to dodge it (counterplay).


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

08-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, back with some more details. We're trying out an iteration of the E that is a bit more like the old E in usage but there are some other changes that help it fit nicely into his new gameplay pattern.

-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s

The goals here were to retain the fun and diverse gameplay of the line nuke. The free targeting and skillshot feel of the E is a nice change of pace from Skarner's other melee focused abilities. We're also trying a longer/slow/less wide projectile so that targets of the E have the opportunity to dodge it (counterplay).
Is there anything to it that will make it more fun than just a simple slowing line? It sounds good and useful, but not that special.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

08-13-2013

can it be fired on the go?


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LesLlamas

Senior Member

08-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Hey all, back with some more details. We're trying out an iteration of the E that is a bit more like the old E in usage but there are some other changes that help it fit nicely into his new gameplay pattern.

-It is now a free cased line nuke like the E in game currently
-The range is increased by about 20%
-The width of the projectile is decreased by about 20%
-Deals magic damage to targets hit and now slows them for 30/35/40/45/50 for 2.5s

The goals here were to retain the fun and diverse gameplay of the line nuke. The free targeting and skillshot feel of the E is a nice change of pace from Skarner's other melee focused abilities. We're also trying a longer/slow/less wide projectile so that targets of the E have the opportunity to dodge it (counterplay).
Does it slow immediately, or after Skarner deals damage to the target like your prior iteration?