A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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TheUrgottenOne

Senior Member

08-07-2013

Is Rengars buff coming anytime soon?


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Auz the Ripper

Senior Member

08-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

Namely, pretty much every human (even those who agree that Rengar stabbing with 0 warning is BS) has been to some degree opposed to the Icon/VO telegraph - and while it's definitely more fair playing against (and not near as detrimental as perceived), there's a lot of validity to the feeling of 'I want to be a hunter lion and this goes against my instinct that i will feel powerful'. It's only one solution out of a lot of them - I hear you guys on this one, and so we're trying alternate approaches to add the appropriate counterplay on the ultimate.
huh, proof there is a god. kinda surprised it came from riot

seriously though, I wish some of the AD scaling would be moved from the empowered Q to Q so Q doesn't feel as gimpy late game. I mean something like changing Q's scaling to 110% or 120% and empowered Q to 190% or 180%, nothing too drastic, just something to make Q feel better than a glorified AA late game and make it so the empowered Q isn't the end all.
Don't get me wrong, I like the empowered Q, but I kinda wish the regular q were more useful than just early/mid game and I believe that it would to take a little hit to the empowered Q to get it and I'm willing to take it if it's offered.
It should also stretch out his burst a little bit (which riot has stated is one of their goals) by removing the front-loading of the empowered Q while still keeping the same level of total damage. I don't know about other Rengar players, but that's what I want.

also, that idea for him only leaving foot prints during his ult is genius, it's subtle enough that 90% of people won't notice it but visible enough to reward those that are truly careful.


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Myouhiro

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Senior Member

08-09-2013

Okay, I've been reading through all the Red posts on Rengars rework, and I had an idea for the Bonetooth necklace. The new Rengar wan't to feel more like a hunter, right? So what if, for every champion in the game, Rengar's BTN would get a special unique passive when he killed that champion? Like, he collects a trophy from the champion and hangs it on his person and it makes him stronger.
E.G. If Rengar kills an Ashe, he gets a small percentage slow on his AAs and/or his Qs. If he kills Tristana, his Bola has a longer range. Lissandra would allow him an AoE ms reduction on his Roar. Jana however could give him an AoE team heal for a reduced portion of his personal one on Roar. For Nasus, maybe he'd get a small amount of passive lifesteal. Kayle could give him a small AoE on his AAs. Draven gives him extra gold per kill. There are countless things he could gain from "stealing" the enemy teams abilities. Each one would be scaled down ofc, at least to be a 5th or less of the corresponding abilities power and influence. It could also be noted that it would give Lanegar a good reason to purchase the item in spite of being a Jungler item at it's core.
I feel like this would make Rengar have a very unique and ever evolving playstyle. There should probably be some other hunteresque bonuses based on the amount of trophies you've taken, but only the first kill on each enemy champ grants their unique bonus. You could stack up to 5 unique passives per game, and it would accentuate the I hunt you and take your stuff as my prize kind of character he is. Just a thought. Feedback?

SIDE NOTE: Oh and a thought on Battle Roar. What if his BR inspired nearby allies, (Similar to GPs buff) and gave them a ms or as increase? Replace the durability with that.


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hoxE

Member

08-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myouhiro View Post
Okay, I've been reading through all the Red posts on Rengars rework, and I had an idea for the Bonetooth necklace. The new Rengar wan't to feel more like a hunter, right? So what if, for every champion in the game, Rengar's BTN would get a special unique passive when he killed that champion? Like, he collects a trophy from the champion and hangs it on his person and it makes him stronger.
E.G. If Rengar kills an Ashe, he gets a small percentage slow on his AAs and/or his Qs. If he kills Tristana, his Bola has a longer range. Lissandra would allow him an AoE ms reduction on his Roar. Jana however could give him an AoE team heal for a reduced portion of his personal one on Roar. For Nasus, maybe he'd get a small amount of passive lifesteal. Kayle could give him a small AoE on his AAs. Draven gives him extra gold per kill. There are countless things he could gain from "stealing" the enemy teams abilities. Each one would be scaled down ofc, at least to be a 5th or less of the corresponding abilities power and influence. It could also be noted that it would give Lanegar a good reason to purchase the item in spite of being a Jungler item at it's core.
I feel like this would make Rengar have a very unique and ever evolving playstyle. There should probably be some other hunteresque bonuses based on the amount of trophies you've taken, but only the first kill on each enemy champ grants their unique bonus. You could stack up to 5 unique passives per game, and it would accentuate the I hunt you and take your stuff as my prize kind of character he is. Just a thought. Feedback?

SIDE NOTE: Oh and a thought on Battle Roar. What if his BR inspired nearby allies, (Similar to GPs buff) and gave them a ms or as increase? Replace the durability with that.
Awesome idea, but the coding involved and the tuning involved would be very extensive.


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Reikson

Junior Member

08-09-2013

I know one of the biggest problems for Rengar live is the negative aspect of double casting his abilities, specifically the Savagery into empowered Savagery.

The idea being tested of giving empowered Savagery the bonus effect of 3 bonus Ferocity is interesting as it allows Rengar to potentially chain together several abilities and empowered abilities.

What if instead you left the empowered bonuses on live intact, and added a wrinkle to his passive?

For example:

Ferocious Predator -
Rengar builds 1 point of Ferocity etc... Same as live version.

Casting an empowered ability within 3 seconds of using the same normal ability returns 3 bonus ferocity and negates the ferocity bonus effect.

This would allow the chaining present in the Q you are currently testing, while also preserving the power of the live Savagery.

You could then move the leap to his ultimate as a persistent passive, or something like that.

Not sure if this idea has already been mentioned but I thought it would be an interesting one to try.


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hoxE

Member

08-12-2013

This thread has gone stale waiting for additional feedback. I'm still curious what talks internally Riot has had regarding alternatives to his ult.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-12-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRoseleader View Post
Is Rengars buff coming anytime soon?

Not for a while.


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8475121562315631

Junior Member

08-12-2013

i say make a whole new ult. the reason here is ( since rengar no longer can burst his targets and is now a fighter. they would just walk away after he jumps them and still make it)


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HuskyKurai

Member

08-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Interesting that you bring this up!

Part of the reason for Wav3 and i's radiosilence is that there isn't much to report at present. Other champions are taking testing bandwidth - and while we're definitely getting good iteration on the changes we have, it's not like Lucian, Yi, or other recently 'near-done' testpoints that need multiple balance tests. Generally for things like this it's 'Make change based on hypothesis -> test -> validate -> repeat' Validating what worked/didn't work with a particular iteration is the easy bit (Rengar without %AS on Q felt bad, Rengar with Q-train felt cool), but working on the next iteration to make sure it's still aligned with the changes but making progress can take time.

We're trying some crazy things. Namely, pretty much every human (even those who agree that Rengar stabbing with 0 warning is BS) has been to some degree opposed to the Icon/VO telegraph - and while it's definitely more fair playing against (and not near as detrimental as perceived), there's a lot of validity to the feeling of 'I want to be a hunter lion and this goes against my instinct that i will feel powerful'. It's only one solution out of a lot of them - I hear you guys on this one, and so we're trying alternate approaches to add the appropriate counterplay on the ultimate.

Larger update as soon as we have concrete stuff to show.

Here's a thought. Why not make it with a 'mini warning' kind of effect. If Rengar uses his Ult, only those who are 'close' to him can see the warning. Roughly a 2 second delay before pounce range (or whatever amount of time). As he hits lv 11 and 16 the circles 'warning range' gets smaller and players have less time to react. Kind of like the idea that the predator is getting more cunning and better as he kills players and you don't 'sense his movements' so much anymore.
If his movement speed in the ult increases per rank, then just leave it at a miniature warning circle since he will get closer with less time anyway and a smaller circle per rank would just make it like it was before.
A small warning should be enough time to warn the lane or person that sees the circle to either pop out some defense or start running because he right there. He will still have time to gank anyone who overextended or if someone does not notice in time but he won't be purely random.
I don't believe anyone can complain when the warning the enemy gets is just a brief moment when normally players have to gank without invisibility and hope that there's no wards in bushes to spot them out.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

08-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Larger update as soon as we have concrete stuff to show.
:3

Anything? Can you at least tell us how the playtests are coming along? Maybe a Alpha stage video of how the Q train works? Looks? How it fairs in a Teamfight?