@Riot, Bring Back ELO for S4

First Riot Post
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Tribunal Justice

Senior Member

08-06-2013

TLDR: elo ain't coming back


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FlippantFox

Senior Member

08-06-2013

I think I'm more upset about the League system now, after that Riot post, than I was before it.

Their metrics are completely useless when they don't even interpret them correctly, or account for where these numbers are even coming from.

All I get out of that Riot post is "we might make a slight tweak, but you complainers are pretty much just going to have to deal with what a good job we did the first time around."

Yeah, right.


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SplendidSorrow

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by direct TV View Post
Thank you for responding to this thread, but here's what i don't get. If a large portion of the LoL community would like to bring back elo, ...
Where do you get the idea that 'a large portion of the LoL community' wants ELO back? This thread, the others like it? The forums are hardly a large sampling of the community. They're a small subset of players, and a small subset of this small subset is being very vocal about it.


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Riot Socrates

Systems Designer

08-06-2013
2 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostbar View Post
Socrates, do think its possible that more players are participating in ranked this season because more people are playing the game?
I'm not in favor of elo instead of leagues - but you make it sound like all of a sudden the playerbase wants to play ranked because of the league system. Please tell me this isnt what you guys believe.
In this case we're looking at the relative and not the absolute measure so population size doesn't impact it. Meaning looking just at the % of games played by type compared to one another, ranked play increased.

Reading through these I feel I should reassert we feel it's not a perfect system, but we do feel it's a superior system. The list of things we want to address is by no means an exhaustive one. It's just the issues we feel are most pressing. I do feel that Bronze / Silver is likely too big of a slice of the population and that is definitely something we're looking at as well.


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CanadasAMyth

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Senior Member

08-06-2013

The only change that I think would be a nice addition is a demotion series. Like instead of being at 0 LP for a while and then dropping, you would enter a demotion series, similar to the promotion series. And if you lost, then you would be demoted.

I think this would add to the sense of accomplishment if you succeeded, and it gives a nice, reliable way to get lower skilled players out of the division.


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Stevev45

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Why don't you show the MMR and have that decided what division your in?
Since that's the only number that has any relation to skill.

Also, when making pro's and con's list, you should make a little effort to not show you bias flapping so hard in the wind.


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Flagrock

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Socrates View Post
What do we want to improve?

• Far and away the biggest issue we want to address is the case where players can’t drop out of a tier once they’ve obtained it. It’s very likely that next season we will allow players to drop out of a division if they’re at 0LP and far below the MMR threshold for the tier they are in. This should solve a few issues, namely the trolling that happens once players reach their target tier and the issue where players get very small LP gains after being at 0 for a long period of time.
• The issue where players receive 0 LP in some cases when being at 99LP we’d like to fix by just instituting a minimum LP gain of 1 instead of requiring the player to be above the required MMR to get into the target tier though we’re monitoring the MMR of players in this tier closely to understand the consequences of that decision should we implement it next season.

Socrates

TL DR: Overall the Leagues System has had a measurable and consistent positive impact, and while it’s not perfect we feel that it’s superior to MMR as a framework for us to work with and improve upon in the future.
I know with the old ELO system once you hit a rating (say 1200 ELO) if you stopped playing you wouldn't drop ELO and you could keep that position for the tier rewards at the end of the season. I was reading through and saw this
Quote:
"It’s very likely that next season we will allow players to drop out of a division if they’re at 0LP"
Now my question with that is, the old ELO system players could hit their goals for the season and stop playing ranked so they reaped the rewards of their hard work, but with the new system if the players hit their goal (say Gold division) early in the season, now they MUST play a ranked game every so often so that they do not drop out from gold. I feel like this punishes casual players and those of us who might have hit a division and feel like they are forced to play a ranked game when they might have not been able to play League regularly or have had the time to improve to make sure they are totally ready. I feel like some of the poor play and the people's MMR being so low is that they hit a division, were happy with it, and then decided to take a break from the high stress of ranked SoloQ to go do normals or just take a break from league, to only come back to have to play ranked to keep their hard fought division.

TL;DR If players can drop from their divisions at 0LP will Riot take away the requirements that players must play ranked games regularly to keep their divisions?


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MercilessSword

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Bump


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Brodhi

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Quote:
• Promotional series create spikes in intensity which make the overall experience more fun and rewarding to participate in.
This is not true at all. The fact of the matter is, you have to win 3 out of 4 (or 4 out of 6) games in a row to go up a Tier or Division. That means it is technically easier to advance Divisions (you only need a 66.66% win ratio) than it is to advance Tiers (where you need a 75% win ratio). That seems backwards to me. It should be easier to advance within Tiers in a Division because in all honesty they mean absolutely nothing until you get to Diamond, and harder to advance Divisions because Divisions is where all the "prizes" are drawn from, not your Tiers within those Divisions.

The game already wants you to win 50% of your games, so why do you think it is feasible for an average player like myself to consistently win 75% of my games until I get to Silver 1, where I then only have to win 66%? It makes climbing extremely difficult for average players and causes what is called "ELO Hell".

The promotion system is terrible, and I cannot even fathom the majority of League likes it.


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Swampert

Senior Member

08-06-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Socrates View Post
• Promotional series create spikes in intensity which make the overall experience more fun and rewarding to participate in.\
I really disagree with this point. I actually hate that some games are arbitrarily given more importance over others. It makes me more nervous to play in those games for absolutely no reason and they are my least favorite part of the new ranked system. It also makes the system look threatening since once you get to 100LP, you still aren't promoted until you win the series, but the same isn't true for getting demoted once you hit 0LP.

And on top of that, if you get someone who trolls in the champion select there's nothing you can do about it, because for some reason you get punished harder for dodging if the game is part of a series.