Summoner's Rift Detailed Art feedback

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Last Laff

Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
"Dragon should look like it comes from the same fantasy world as Shyvana.

Seriously, their anatomies are completely different. You guys need to decide if dragons in Valoran have two legs or four legs. There is very little consistency in this game's art sometimes"

We actually deliberately try to separate creatures from champions. We want to keep Shyvanna's dragon form unique to Shyvanna. I agree with you about consistancy. From an Environment perspective we are working to create a cohesive look to our maps, and that is going to be a ongoing effort.
Shyvana's dragon form isn't even a dragon, it's a wyvern. Of course, Riot is hardly the only entity to make this mistake, it gets made all the time.


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Meterix

Junior Member

08-02-2013

Overarching Design: Just bump it up a notch in general. I like the idea of different aesthetics for the two sides to further separate them thematically. There's no sign of a 'rift' of any sort, literal or symbolic. As it stands it is more like Summoner's Mirror.

Bases: Improved visuals on Nexus and Inhibs would be great. Separate shopkeepers that also talk just as much as the howling abyss shopkeepers do.

Lanes: Not much to say here. Some would like more of a path feel, I'm impartial to the idea.

Jungle: Play up the jungle feel more. Maybe it's a little darker in there or something. The camps need to feel less like some summoners told them to stand in this alcove, and more like they live there. The campfire for the lizards and the stone circle for the wraiths can defiantly be improved upon. Small signs of wild life would be cool. Someone mentioned random game play elements, like plants that hurt you and such. Maybe similar to the poros on howling abyss, in the respect of something that can give away your position in the jungle. Like certain spots you leave a short footprint trail, or a bird might fly out, ect.

River: Needs to seem more like a river, less like a large pond. I believe someone mentioned having the river travel under mid lane, if you could pull this off without disrupting maneuverability in and out of that area, I think this would help sell the river aesthetic. Some clever solution for the ends at top and bot lane would be great as well.

Bushes: If uniformity isn't a huge issue with bushes, than I feel having two different kinds for each side to match that sides theme would be a nice touch. A third, river themed bush, could be used along the river as well.

Dragon: Bump up the visuals. Maybe include a hoard of gold under him that vanishes when slain. Create a more cave like atmosphere without obstructing the pit area.

Baron: Do, it, up. If you can make this look epic, like the baron from twist of fate, and feel epic, like ebonmaw from twisted treeline, all without disrupting map balance and current baron dance capabilities, riot please.


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SingleSyllable

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Do you have any plans to change the geometry of the map itself? If you had a longer lane than the others on each side, perhaps melee carries would be able to have more room to farm up their items and get powerful enough to contribute to an effective level akin to that of ranged carries.

This would also shift the power balance of the "solo top" role, as then the game would be less safe for them in a 2v1 lane from the start, but that would also solve the problem that is top lane, wouldn't it?

As for the balance of Baron and Dragon, each team already has an advantage to either one due to them being back-on to their jungle, but there would probably have to be some rebalancing to compensate for a larger jungle area behind them, so perhaps thicker walls and greater distance from the outer edge to them so that things like Lee Sin's q or Thresh's q would not be able to hit either objective from over the wall, forcing flashes instead to make for team decision making and more equal river fights?

This change would also allow for more camps in the jungle, allowing junglers to have more gold than before and possibly allowing the support to roam with the jungler in some cases, leaching exp from the increased quantity of camps instead of the carry, which would diversify viable strategies other than the predominant 2v1 tower push and the 1/1/2 v 1/1/2 lanes that we have currently.


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Gløry

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
Great ideas. Some of these have been on our radar for a while. We are trying to find the right application for varient gameplay modes.
Actually, these are ****ing terrible ideas. Sorry to be blunt. But if you ever played World of Warcraft arena competitively, holy **** would you realize the can of worms you're opening up. Ring of Valor. If you're not familiar, ask around some serious WoW arena players. That place had "environmental hazards" in the form of lines of fire that appeared on the ground. It was 100% horse ****. No one liked them. You'd be having an interesting duel and then all of a sudden WHOOSH you're dead. They were promptly removed when Blizz realized how dumb they were.

Seriously, do not add environmental bull**** to this game, at least not on summoner's rift. I can (and do) ignore the other maps you put out(the game isn't balanced for them)...just don't **** up SR.


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Cerxi

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
"Dragon should look like it comes from the same fantasy world as Shyvana.

Seriously, their anatomies are completely different. You guys need to decide if dragons in Valoran have two legs or four legs. There is very little consistency in this game's art sometimes"

We actually deliberately try to separate creatures from champions. We want to keep Shyvanna's dragon form unique to Shyvanna. I agree with you about consistancy. From an Environment perspective we are working to create a cohesive look to our maps, and that is going to be a ongoing effort.
Why should Dragon look like Shyvana anyway? She's a half-dragon. Visually, since she has two legs in dragon-form, she's some form of wyvern, which is a form of drake that can, and does, coexist in many fantasy worlds alongside actual great dragons.


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RiotForScience

Senior Environment Artist

08-02-2013
17 of 97 Riot Posts

@ Gløry- Absolutely! We will not add any novel gameplay into SR. We believe in the integrity of the map. Adding environmental Hazards, incidental changes to the fog of war, random events of any kind are completely out of the question.

The context of my comment was if we would ever add those ideas to any map, which we might. Most likely in the context of a brand new map variant. But we have no plans to do so.

I hope that resolves your concern


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AmakanZ45

Junior Member

08-02-2013

I've been following this thread for a while now at Surrender at 20 and figured I should post some of my own feedback.

I know I'm not a prominent player (or forum surfer) but I really love the stories and lore that are in this game. It might end up being a long post, but I hope you'll take the time to read it and take my ideas into consideration ;w;

As I understand it's lore, Summoner's Rift is the first ever Field of Justice, a forest region that is located on top of a section of the Serpentine River. It is also said to be where many battles (specifically those of the Rune Wars) took place prior to it becoming a Field of Justice. The reason it was made to be a Field of Justice is because of the large concentration of Magical Energy it has.

The current Summoner's Rift doesn't really fit the description though, the river is more like a lake you would find in an actual rift (though very much too small to really be considered part of an actual rift, being more of a pond in comparison to an actual lake), and there are also no indications of any previous battles (you'd think battles that happened in the Rune Wars would have had more of an impact on the surrounding environment...) nor does it have any indication of being a major hub of magical activity, save for the magics produced by champions on the Field. Needless to say, some changes need to be made to either make SR fit it's lore, or make the lore fit SR. I'm more in favor of the former.

Summoner's Rift should be a story all on it's own, not having anything to do with specific champs (except Urf...) or places other than in relation to where it is located, and should help tell the story of the League and why it was made in the first place.

In terms of visual stuff, I like the idea of having the lanes be roads, possibly being overtaken by nature in some areas, with dirt paths leading into the jungle and with the river leading into a grate (as mentioned by someone else previously) or something slightly underneath them or making the roads around that area into a shallow bridge of some kind?
The Jungle camps would occupy an area or contain evidence of a previous battle (like those of the Rune Wars), a more river-like River (or maybe just a stream which offshoots from the actual river? It supposedly goes from Kalamanda to Kaladoun which is 'just west of Freljord' which means the river in SR needs to run through all the way ._.) with a unique (and intimidating) spot for a visually updated Baron (someone said something about the Baron featured in 'A Twist of Fate' foreshadowing a future visual update for Baron, however unlikely that is, I definitely want to see something like that happen).
Larger Trees that are more in proportion with champs (like those on TTL or the few found on DOM) with space in between them to put more lore related things (such as Urf's Grave perhaps? Magical particles coalescing? or maybe canceled or removed items appearing with stuff related to the Rune Wars?).
The walls around SR need to be a more defining boundary and the trees (and river) should continue on past them rather than stop at the boundary.
The structures should also help tell the story of the League as well, the Turrets should be able to identify to a side by shape rather than color and the bases should be more unique to their side as well (the fountains being like buildings where the champions entered the battlefield from?)
The large protrusions ('cliffs') should be more like large boulders or piles of rock/rubble and should define the banks of the river rather than simply jutting up out of the ground.
The torches don't really make much sense because they should light up the Fog of War but don't (same is true for the other maps).

In terms of gameplay, there is one thing I'd like to see changed; The path near blue side red buff that opens up right next to blue side bot turret provides an alternative (and not quite fair) ganking opportunity for the Purple team. If blue team wanted to have the same kind of ganking potential, they'd have to risk being shot by the turret on their way in as the path by purple side blue-buff opens up behind the turret and is just outside of it's range. The same problem is reversed in top-lane, where purple side is at a disadvantage in terms of ganking potential. I'm not sure how many people have an actual problem with this, but it always seemed to be a bit inconsistent in providing teams a fair advantage, similar to how people with locked cameras who play purple side will lose a portion of their vision simply because of the orientation of the camera's view.

I hope that wasn't too long of a read .~.
But thanks for those who read it anyway ^_^


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Arctic Wolf

Senior Member

08-02-2013

The one thing which I would really like to see in League is having more focus on the importance of terrain. The ability to stay in the fog of war by hiding in the brush is, at best, the most basic aspect of this. Consider StarCraft II and other RTS style games, almost always there is a vision advantage for those who hold areas of high ground as well as concealable brush. This would give wards even more strategic advantages, as well as allowing the incorporation of neutral zones to grant small areas of vision (think Xel'Naga Towers) While it would involve extensive testing on what works and what is balanced, it would allow for much more dynamic games than the current version on live.


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exec3

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by exec3 View Post
Maybe some of the jungle camps could get dialogue.
Actually maybe minions could maybe get some dialogue as well. Obviously nothing you hear often but every so often they could scream "charge"! when the enemy minions come in range, give positive reinforcement on last-hits/tower kills/inhibitor kills/do a dance when Nexus is destroyed (XD) as well as the occasional scream when they die. Some of the dialogue could be themed on the fact they're being controlled by lesser Summoner's.


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Anrui

Senior Member

08-02-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotForScience View Post
@ Gløry- Absolutely! We will not add any novel gameplay into SR. We believe in the integrity of the map. Adding environmental Hazards, incidental changes to the fog of war, random events of any kind are completely out of the question.

The context of my comment was if we would ever add those ideas to any map, which we might. Most likely in the context of a brand new map variant. But we have no plans to do so.

I hope that resolves your concern
Can you please try to reply to others in quotes instead of @? It is pretty confusing for me to not know exactly what you are talking about or from where you are quoting from when you quote others with ""