@Lyte - Player Behavior, Matchmaking, and Life as a Scientist

First Riot Post
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DestructoDave

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I really cant stand this guy.


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Kazen247

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Lyte - is there any way to add some type of icon or badge to players who have restricted chat? I communicate a lot during games and if the player is not responding, I get extremely frustrated and quite often will report for refusing to communicate with the team. Also, does restricted chat prevent champ select chat or just in-game? I've never seen anyone in champ select say "Hey guys - i'm restricted to chat in game, so if I don't respond, that's why".


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Arcticfury

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
We're not ready to talk about our Champion Select ideas just yet, but most of the Player Behavior team is working on this problem.

Our recent discussion on Champion Select is here:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...php?p=35559365

I guess "recent" is relative being that this thread's last Red post was over 3 1/2 months ago.

I know you don't have a solid idea of what is going to happen, or maybe it's a date that you don't have. But I feel like maybe we should have an idea of where you're likely to go with this, even if we don't get a date. Can you give us any update? Is role selection the direction we're heading or maybe preference tags? I know I'd like to know your thoughts, even if not finalized.


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1337L33THeirm

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyAlive View Post
Then let's make the comparison to LoL:
How many posts on these forums are telling Riot how great some of their decisions were? And how many are complaining about perceived flaws in these decisions?

Or even in-game. How many people tell their teammates how great that gank was? And how many people complain when a gank goes wrong?

People are more likely to voice disapproval, even if they are very satisfied in general with a product. The analogy works because these people rarely say how great their connection works most of the time. But when it is down 1 hour...hell breaks loose.
The analogy is bad because what you're trying to say is that people focus/remember negative events, but what you're actually saying is that people aren't wasting time telling people that they actually got what they paid for. The forums analogy is better. Telling someone how great a gank was floods the chat just as much as telling them how they did a **** job. They know, no need to tell them.

People post on the forums what Riot does wrong because Riot is posting everywhere what they think they did right. They have massive egos, never admit mistakes, and give themselves way too much credit for things. Either way, Lyte has yet to give us any actual answers here.

Also there is more value telling someone to change a part of the product than telling them what you like about the product from a customer point of view. Yes, letting them know what they did right helps, but telling them what is completely ****ing broken tells them to ****ing fix their **** or the customer isn't going to be happy and might just switch to a different service. To the customer, they provide a clear incentive (fix or I leave) rather than potential future profits that are out of the customer's control (do this and you'll get more customers)


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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07-29-2013
27 of 107 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderForHegemon View Post
Lyte most of the time I appreciate your work, but Having heard a few things about behavioral alerts, I'd like to share my experiance with the feature.

In some lousy games, particularly a streak of winnable games that I lost because everybody was on a different page (par for the course SoloQ) I vent about what would have happened if everybody were on MY page, which can get me justifiably reported. I know and expect that. But getting a little message telling me that it happened sets me off even more. It's definitely tilting to spend a game trying to implement a strategy, and just have the other guy report you at the end of it. It sent me into a Righteous Rant Rampage over the next two or three games, and I got behavior-warning'd at the end of those too.

I've played ~5k games without any action taken against my account and I've previously had honor ribbons, so I can't believe that I'm truly at the bottom of the barrel, but getting the message after a lousy game makes me feel that way, and self-fullfills my behavior in future games.
Thank you for your feedback. To clarify a few points, Behavioral Alerts does not target the worst of the worst like the Tribunal. Behavioral Alerts targets 'neutral' or 'positive' players that might just be having a bad week or bad day, and reminds them to be more sportsmanlike. This is why Behavioral Alert pop-ups aren't linked to any punishments--the idea is that if players are neutral or positive, then a reminder is all they need to improve their behavior again.

However, we're very curious to see if Behavioral Alerts could be more clear to players--that they target neutral/positive players having a bad day or week, and that there are no guaranteed punishments just because you got an alert.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

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07-29-2013
28 of 107 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasado View Post
Lyte, concerning chat restrictions - would allowing chat restricted players to always have the right to say "mia" or "ss" with a 5 second interval gap (and eventually monitoring for spam cases beyond that to auto mute) be a decent recourse?

At least giving players who are chat restricted the ability to say crucial things in chat that don't require much but literally the info of 2-3 letters doesn't seem too much of a big deal - more good than bad, I would say.
It's an interesting idea, and something we've discussed internally. Like you mentioned, we'd have to monitor for spam cases or put in an automatic spam throttle; however, we don't believe this feature is as valuable as the things we are currently working on. We may revisit in the future though!


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Lyte

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07-29-2013
29 of 107 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flotsa View Post
Hey Lyte, I met you at PAX and discussed something about honor rewards with you at the event, (I was one of the guys that the one guy who gave away PAX Jax's gave a PAX Jax out to), and i was wondering if there was anything in the pipeline for rewards with different types of honor? Say I maintain a ribbon for X ammount of time, or have Y amount of that honor, I'm rewarded with a summoner icon, or a profile banner, etc...
Hey Flotsa! That was an amazing story at PAX.

There's definitely a few things coming down the pipe for Honorable players.


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Lyte

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07-29-2013
30 of 107 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedirex View Post
How do you define "positive" players? Do you mean to say there are people with substantially less toxicity in their games than average because they can somehow negate it? If so, can you get one to teach me how to shut flamers up?
Positive players can be defined in a variety of ways. Depending on the experiment or feature, it could be players that influence other players to play more games. It could be players that are frequently added as friends by strangers. It could be players that rarely get reports in games or is rarely ignored by other players.

Your example could be an interesting metric as well, if we looked at the players who somehow have the ability to shield other players from toxicity, or even curb a toxic player's outbursts in the middle of a match.


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Lyte

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07-29-2013
31 of 107 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garwin7 View Post
@Lyte

So matchmaking and behavior is the topic currently and here is just my 2 cents on maybe fixing some of it.

Have you looked at Dota 2 system where if your a leaver/afk/bad behavior your put into a low priority matchmaking?

You could maybe implement like a 3 tier system for this. Low/Medium/High would be the splits. Low is for people who afk/leave/behave badly, Medium is for the occasional person and high is for the people who rarely ever do it. This would allow the rank system to hopefully stay a bit more clean and consistent. it will put the people who troll/afk/leave games in the same tier system so they have to play with each other.

I know this is a total fix but it might help weed out some of the leavers/afk/trolls/bad behavior people. The only way to move back up tiers is dedication to being a better/nicer/non-leaver. This will force them to be better players/people so they arent with trashy teammates and opponents.

Garwin
Low priority queue systems aren't optimal for League of Legends in particular. Many games that use low priority queue systems only use them to address or punish behaviors like Leaving, which are black and white. If a player left a game, it's very clear, and the player understands exactly what they did to garner that punishment. You also know that if you play more games without leaving, you can one day get out of low priority queues.

However, if you use low priority queue systems to address player behavior, you end up creating something we call Prisoner's Island. Prisoner's Island is basically a matchmaking queue where only 'negative' players can play, separating them from the rest of the playerbase. Many might think erroneously that this solves the player behavior problem, but it only creates more.

1) Many players in Prisoner's Island might not view their behavior as toxic, and wonder why they are in Prisoner's Island. If feedback isn't very clear, players have difficulty reforming.
2) Toxicity breeds toxicity. If we put the worst of the worst players in the same game, odds are that the game will be extremely toxic, further decaying the behaviors of the players. The players who can't stand it anymore will simply make new accounts, shifting their toxicity to low level accounts.
3) Research suggests that although a small % of players are truly toxic in a high number of their games, the average player does have their bad days and can have an outburst. It might be a bad day at work or school, and they might vent a little in games--throwing this type of player into Prisoner's Island does nothing except exacerbate the problem and create even worse behaviors in the player.

I could talk all day about Prisoner's Island and Low Priority Queue systems, but at the end of the day, these just aren't the right solutions for League of Legends because of the unique nature of the game.


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A Giant Boulder

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
Hey Flotsa! That was an amazing story at PAX.

There's definitely a few things coming down the pipe for Honorable players.
Lyte, currently I'm taking a break from League because I don't like the way I've been responding to it lately, but I have a question that I hope you can shed some light on. I'm a plat player, and one thing I've noticed at this level is that nobody seems to honor. For example, when I play with my low level friends, everyone seems to honor. Teammates will honor you for just plain playing well, or whatever else. In platinum, nobody uses this feature at all. I'm not trying to state that something is wrong because I'm a great player who deserves honor etc, far from that.

Rather I don't see the system being used in situations that if they had taken place in a low level game, would have resulted in honor being awarded by another player. Everyone at this point just seems to not care anymore. I miss the moment of reward I feel after a game where everyone acted appropriately and we pat each other on the back with honor. That seldom, if ever, happens. And it's not as if there aren't games with good people at this level, just that the feature isn't used.

Have you noticed a difference in the amount the system is used at different levels of play? Are you guys planning anything to encourage people to use the system? I know that's a tricky subject that would be hard to prevent abuse, but I don't see any other way to get players at this point to use it. Or is my experience just abnormal and the people I play with just don't happen to use honor and/or people just don't feel I deserve it.