A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Mechanikatt

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

An thematically nice thing for 14 stacks (to give him more of that ultimate predator feel) could either be increased vision range (or maybe even inbuilt oracle's elixir vision), range over walls (like he has a permanent clairvoyance over his head), or some extra effect where he does bonus damage to enemies that are low on health (like a stronger version of the 21 point offense mastery).


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Criode

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobilized Boat View Post

http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...ooth_necklace/

Read the thread. Everyone hates what you are doing. Just leave him alone.
I just read that thread; and can't find a single person expressly against the bonetooth changes or what they're doing.

In fact, most redditors in that thread are supportive of the changes, and just concerned how jungle creep stacking and lane stacking would be balanced.

They seem concerned that jungle rengar will dwarf his stabtabby status in top lane with a stacking mechanic from jungle mobs, but that's a far cry from "Everyone Hates what you are doing" /le 'sigh


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RobertLarcher1

Junior Member

07-29-2013

I strongly disagree with the reward for 3 stacks being faster move speed when inside brush. This seems like it would have very low impact, even for a 3 stack reward. I don't see it actually impacting Rengar's gameplay at all as usually once your inside a brush move speed isn't an issue, as you jump to your opponent anyways. That or the enemy is out of range which again move speed doesn't help you with.

This brings me to my suggestions

1. Make it so that you gain x move speed whilst running toward a brush.
This will help Rengar to get into a brush in order to make use of his passive, and would further increase the fear of fighting a Rengar in the jungle, as he will have slightly more ease of access to brush's thus more leaps making his chase/kite/juke potential all stronger.

2. Make it so that Rengar gains x movespeed for y seconds after leaving a brush.
This will let rengar stick to his opponents a little easier after leaping them from a brush, which would go nicely with your design path to make him less bursty, and a slightly more sustained damage dealer. This would also make Rengar get slightly better use out of the 'grace period' of when Rengar can activate his leap passive by attacking a unit after just leaving a brush, as he could travel a bit further in this time.

Note these changes may far too strong for a 3 stack reward thus could be worked in to fit at a higher slot. Either way i personally think the unoriginal Nidalee style passive fits rengars play style and don't impact his game play enough if at all to justify it being a reward.

PS: I don't mind stat bonus's on the bone tooth as they certainly do feel impactful, so if they are needed at some point in the design i don't think its an issue.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

07-29-2013

X movespeed while not in vision of an enemy champion?

it'd have more impact on jungle cat than bush movespeed, at any rate.


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jimmy57

Senior Member

07-29-2013

But so, an equal farm rengar is no longer going to be able to 100-0 someone in 1-3 seconds anymore? Because that was really unbalanced and unfair. while offering little to no counter play


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Nilous7

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Can 14 stacks allowed Rengar's autoattacks to reveal his target for like 3 seconds after striking them, same with bolas strike?


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
The overall price of the item has stayed the same but as Scarizard said in his posts, "mini-brutalizer" - esque stats will no longer exist on BTN.
So, theres no CDR or armor pen on it now, got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
3 Stacks - Rengar gains 15% movement speed while in brush(bonus does not persist outside of brush like Nidalee's)
So he no longer gets +25 static movement speed? Understood but unhappy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
The 14 stack bonus is still a pretty big grey area as we want Rengar players to reach this epic state at 14 stacks but we don't want them to do so at the cost of making his game play toxic again.If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard
I'd prefer to see the item disappear like the Elesia's Miracle. It would still gain and lose stacks (with the exception of the mini-quest) but it would free up the inventory slot.

That's it. The benefit of getting back that slot is great enough because ANYTHNG can be itemized into that slot. No need to worry about pigeonholing Rengar into one playstyle because he gets his flexibility back in the end.

One other thing, make it 15 stacks so they are all multiples of three and add another rank at 12 stacks:
- Leap gains another 50 range and brush speed persists for one second. - If I had to pick one or the other I'd go with the brush speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.
Tie those kind of trophies to the blue and red buffs directly. e.g. Rengar gains a jungle trophy if he claims blue or red buff. Counts when killing an opponent or the jungle creep itself. Getting double buff off of an enemy would count as one player trophy and two jungle trophies. This is extremely thematic. This would make Rengar very, very interested in hunting down the enemy jungler or extracting revenge on the enemy who killed him while he had double-buff. Extreme theme! Plus, it doesn't punish Rengar top. It actually makes the enemy jungler cautious of feeding him double-buff.


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Draciusen

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I like the idea of having the necklace disappear at 14 stacks and Rengar permanently keeping the bonuses, it frees up a slot so you guys don't have to worry about giving the Bonetooth necklace too many strong stats since it can be replaced anyway.


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Hydesdelca

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Wow. Nope, I want a refund. Please refund Rengar, as you are turning my favorite top laner into a bad jungler who won't be able to compete with any of the other current good junglers.


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GrimoireM

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Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.
Why not give Rengar a single stack whenever he gets red, blue, or baron buff? Then it's not going to be a problem for lane or jungle Rengar. The only problem is the potential of spiking up from a double buff kill, which might be fine, or require writing the check differently.

As for an ultimate BTN effect, being able to retain the leap passive for 2 or so seconds after leaving a brush might be cool.