A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ixsiehn

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulzara View Post
I think Rengar's ult could go for a sort of mind game mentality. As Rengar gets closer to his target, players on the enemy team would hear Rengar laughter, or some sort of taunt as Rengar prepares to pounce. To me, it would make him feel more like a hunter, and add a mind game to the ultimate that would really bring out his aspect of being a predator. That panic of "he's near me, oh god what if he's about to jump me" could lead a player to making a careless mistake that allows a master hunter to capitalize on.
or make every other less incompetent players go "oh rengar is near, prepare your stuns" or they just wait out your ult under the turret. I mean, sure they lose farm but you just burned your ult.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ron Paul

Senior Member

07-28-2013

-Do you identify Rengar's playstyle as one that would be a particularly good fit in the jungle? What improvements would you like to see be made to help him out?

I play him jungle often- definitely one of my favorites. I'd be dissapointed if after the rework I could not play him top, because I prefer to play him top when available due to the amount of gold I can net to actually assassinate.

-What is appealing to you about the defensive boost Rengar receives from Battle Roar? I'd like to change this from just flat Armor and Magic Resistance to something that can be situationally more powerful and makes him less 'meatwall' when he leaps on a target
Nothing really. I would much rather it be changed to something else. Maybe lower armor/magic of those in the radius.

-What types of improvements or changes would you like to see be made to Bonetooth Necklace? Ideally i'd like to see this moved away from a 'stat-stick' and embrace more unique enhancements like his 'Increases Leap Range by 150'
It'd definitely need some better qualities, because I hate picking it up because towards mid-end game it just seems outclassed, even at 14 stacks.
I'd love to theorycraft some ideas, but I don't know how the Rengar your testing plays vs the one on live. I'd pick it up if it let me triple Q on live, or drastically reduce the cooldown on my ult. It'd really have to be dramatic for me to want to pick it up because of how outclassed it can be.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Wav3Break

Live Balance Intern

07-28-2013
38 of 81 Riot Posts

Hey everybody, just wanted to update you guys with the current testing status of our current iteration of Rengar.

Heavy destructive testing will continue for the Empowered Savagery refunding 3 ferocity points play pattern. This past week we found that Rengar was still doing too much damage in too little of a time frame which is a problem we still need to solve within this iteration. This iteration also makes jungle Rengar incredibly resourceful as he can walk away from each creep camp with more ferocity stacks and gank lanes without as much preparation.

The big changes we will be testing this week are Bone Tooth Necklace which will now give Rengar a personalized jungle item which has a really favorable build path out of Long Sword and Hunter's Machete. The overall price of the item has stayed the same but as Scarizard said in his posts, "mini-brutalizer" - esque stats will no longer exist on BTN. BTN is now an item that gives Rengar bonuses that directly impact his mobility in the jungle and thus his overall map pressure. The current bonuses in place look something like this:

3 Stacks - Rengar gains 15% movement speed while in brush(bonus does not persist outside of brush like Nidalee's)

6 Stacks - Rengar gains 100 range on his Leap(slightly nerfed due to having access to it earlier.)

9 Stacks - Rengar retains movement speed from his Ultimate for 5 seconds after exiting his ultimate. (Rocket cat goes zooooooooom)

The 14 stack bonus is still a pretty big grey area as we want Rengar players to reach this epic state at 14 stacks but we don't want them to do so at the cost of making his game play toxic again.

An additional mechanic we will be testing with BTN is allowing Rengar players to build stacks out of neutral monster kills. Currently the amount of neutral monster kills required to build a stack is pretty hefty, which encourages jungle Rengar to invade the enemy jungle to take camps but also hopefully interact with the enemy jungler. This mechanic is still kind of the grey area as well because it might give too many advantages to a jungle Rengar over a lane Rengar and we don't want to make laning Rengar's feel bad for purchasing this item.

If you guys have any thoughts on what epic thing Rengar should get at maximum stacks toss'em out! I look forward to the ideas you guys will give me and Scarizard!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Kawaii Carlos

Senior Member

07-28-2013

A quick tip/hot fix suggestion from a rengar main, if one of his main problems is killing too fast with no counterplay(he's on ur face b4 u realize it), just remove from his passive that he leaps when stealthed.

Lovin these downvotes for stating a suggestion that fixes what riot thinks is the major problem in his kit.

Why is Rengar strong in the current meta?
Rengar in his current state excels at destroying the enemy carry with relatively low risk because of his ultimate and kit. Since the meta is revolving around the efficiency of the adc, making it a 4v5 with no carry usually turns the fight over to whoever still has their adc alive.

Suggestions:
Removing the leap on his ult, lowering leap range, giving passive a low cooldown,

good rengar players will ALWAYS pick fights in the jungle/river because of how easy it is to pick targets when your passive is up. Since your passive range (esp. with btn 9 stacks) you outrange most adc's so their kiting mechanics is neutered with your passive.
This is EXTREMELY helpful as a melee adc/assasin since it fixes the major issues that olaf/udyr/etc. have that rengar doesn't.

How do you counter Rengar's ult in higher elo?

With the oracle's buff, all stealth was indirectly nerfed since focusing the player who had oracles now yields less results. If you see a stealthed rengar beelining for your carry, cc is the best option to counter rengar's ult. Guardian angel is also a desirable late game item that discourages rengar to choose you as his main target.

I am writing down these counterplays because the majority of GD either doesn't see, or chooses to ignore these options available to them, therefore exaggerating how "OP" he

really is, when in reality, he is just what does...wait for it... what an assassin does.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Two suggestions:
For Bonetooth Necklace: Have you thought about having it stack on dragon/baron kills? Would make Smiting it more valuable for him...

Second, for 14 stacks: How about making the Necklace like Eleisa's: On reaching 14 stacks, it is gaining permanent status as a buff? That would remove the need for an item slot, come end-game.
If you went with that, though, I'd suggest getting further stacks after 9 only by kills/assists on champions.
This way, he could stack up his bonuses in a low-kill game, but to get them permanently, he'd have to make things happen.
Also, you'd need something different for the Head of Kha'zix...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

majestiic

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Why are these changes not being put on the PBE? isn't that what the PBE is for if you really want our feedback why not let us test the changes? Seems like the best way of finding out how the community feels.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Chauncho94

Junior Member

07-28-2013

How would gaining a stack based on killing (or assisting in the kill of) dragon or baron? One stack every 6-7 mins seems like it would be reasonable. I added in the stack on assist because lane Rengar wouldn't have smite to secure the kill.

Edit: I just read the comments above me and it seems ProfDrDeath and I have pretty much the same idea, sorry if it looks like I copied your idea, but +1 for being 12 mins faster than myself!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ProfDrDeath

Senior Member

07-28-2013

^ No problem

Besides, only shows that more people than me find that idea pretty cool


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Raasu

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Snip
No ideas on the 14 stack bonus as of now but I would like to suggest that somewhere in there you add the ability to retain true vision for a time after ult as well. It's a notable strength in his ult but when you start to attack the invisible enemy you can no longer see them to finish the job. Also, how would you feel about giving Rengar vision of the area in his leap radius while in brush? I'm thinking as a trophy stack.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

07-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by majestiic View Post
Why are these changes not being put on the PBE? isn't that what the PBE is for if you really want our feedback why not let us test the changes? Seems like the best way of finding out how the community feels.
Riot doesn't want to put up 20 different Rengar builds on PBE. They'd rather make 20 kits on their own servers, test them there, give and recieve feedback on the forums, then come out with a "final" PBE build. They don't want to have to re patch the PBE for every Rengar test, needless use of resources and time