@Riot What happened to Arcane Helix

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Butch Flowers

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
A large part of it was actually blue buff / map mana regen auras and large max mana items like Rod of Ages and Frozen Heart (and Tear.)

Essentially, once you had enough max mana, Helix plus any source of regeneration would turn the engine on overdrive.
Fair enough, but even with huge amounts of mana and mana regen the engine would still be limited by the cooldowns of the champion, except in the cases of champions with toggle abilities. So why not lower the amount healed for toggle abilities or even remove the healing from toggle abilities. That seriously would fix any abuse case i can think of


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Faptain Teemo

Member

07-25-2013

Sivir would have gone nuts with this.

Oh...Catalyst does need more to build out of tho, real talk.


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Disgruntler

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Huh. Why was it a problem? What did it do.

--goes on to lol wiki to see what.--

Mother of god.

That thing... on singed.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-25-2013
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Fair enough, but even with huge amounts of mana and mana regen the engine would still be limited by the cooldowns of the champion, except in the cases of champions with toggle abilities. So why not lower the amount healed for toggle abilities or even remove the healing from toggle abilities. That seriously would fix any abuse case i can think of
It would definitely fix some of the abuse cases (well, barring Kassadin / Kog'maw) - but in the end, it was determined that the net benefit of having the item wasn't cool enough to justify having in the game - as it just wasn't particularly cool.

Quote:
That thing... on singed.
From testing the item - it was also super obnoxious on Kassadin. Rift Walk for 800 damage + 800 health = Oh god, ruuun!


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Butch Flowers

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
A large part of it was actually blue buff / map mana regen auras and large max mana items like Rod of Ages and Frozen Heart (and Tear.)

Essentially, once you had enough max mana, Helix plus any source of regeneration would turn the engine on overdrive.

Honestly - the item didn't seem cool enough in the end when it worked to justify putting a bunch of conditions in, unfortunately.

It was just - Hey! I'm Swain / Kassadin and I want to stay out in the field forever - rather than doing anything particularly cool - they were just tanky and healy. :P
Fair enough i understand that, Kass wasn't an abuse case i thought of. What if we were to take away some of the selfish stats on the item? So for these abuse cases it would be as desirable of an item for them, but instead turn it more into a supportive item? Maybe something not exactly like Locket, cause as we all know that didnt work out to well, but similar in the fact that you are converting your mana into heals for any friendly champions in a small vicinity around you? It sounds locket-esque but not just a flat amount of hp and mana regen. I'm fairly certain there is some really cool potential for this to be a cool support item that isnt to attractive to laners and mana tanks. It would probably be much different then you first iteration of the Helix but would bring some more cool itemization to the support role, which you have done amazing with so far in season 3.


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OGZ Bob Gnarly

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
It would definitely fix some of the abuse cases (well, barring Kassadin / Kog'maw) - but in the end, it was determined that the net benefit of having the item wasn't cool enough to justify having in the game - as it just wasn't particularly cool.

From testing the item - it was also super obnoxious on Kassadin. Rift Walk for 800 damage + 800 health = Oh god, ruuun!
What about a toggle item that let you expend some amount of health in addition to (or instead of) mana in order to power up the ability?


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Kirvinn

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Excited Soup

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Senior Member

07-25-2013

This would be broken as hell on ryze and swain.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

07-25-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
It would probably be much different then you first iteration of the Helix but would bring some more cool itemization to the support role, which you have done amazing with so far in season 3.
First off - no, we haven't done that well with support items, because we didn't solve Vision.

We mitigated the problem somewhat - but vision remains the one element of the game that is completely destructive towards support itemization. These two systems clash and vision wins.

If we had better active item UI - it might be plausible to do some sort of vial of moonwell effect or something - where you charge up a heal by using mana - making it a much much smaller item that could then build into Mikael's or something.

But this would have to wait for S4 at best - the game doesn't really need more items right now for variety's sake - but I agree that more support items would be good.


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Butch Flowers

Senior Member

07-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excited Soup View Post
This would be broken as hell on ryze and swain.
Swain yes, Ryze not so much. Yeah he builds alot of mana, but his spells have relatively low mana costs. His Q would only heal for 18 and his E and W would only heal for 36 each. So it wouldn't be all that bad