A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Servantofthe99

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaDivingPoop View Post
You do realize that your suggestion has a fatal flaw. If rengar's Bola were to be made into a skill not it WILL NOT ignore minions. They are trying to make changes so rengar can become a stronger viable jungler. So having a skill that ignore minions kinda seems counter productive. His Bola should just stay target select the way it is. Only thing they can improve on it is either remove the decaying slow or only decay half.

they already ruined that by completely taking away his ganking ability by letting the enemy know he's there.


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Atyres

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly5 View Post
Hey I heard something about Rengar's ult giving an icon above enemy player's heads when rengar is stealthed around them.

...I just want to say...

I'm so glad this is finally being implemented.
I've always found the fact that Rengar was the only champion with a non-telegraphed stealth gapcloser to be his most broken, unfair, and unfun mechanic.
I've been posting about how this was Rengar's biggest problem from the beginning.
I'm really happy that Riot's finally come to its senses.

What this means is that after this change is implemented, power can be shifted to buff the rest of Rengar's kit. For instance the stealth maybe could/should last as long as release Rengar, or allow a greater speed boost as with release Rengar.

In any case, glad this mechanic of Rengar's finally being brought to justice.
You mean except shaco and twitch...

btw I hate it when people go invulnerable with ults, but hey, it's an ultimate skill, not nurse the baby cause they can't buy a ward skill.


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Æøæøæøæøæøæøæø

Junior Member

07-21-2013

Could a Rioter respond to this ?

Why do you guys seem so intent on making Rengar a viable jungler? Why can't he just be a top-laner, as this is where I and many others have fallen in love with the character, as this is where he has been the most viable in many of his iterations (ap rengar, assassin rengar v1, tank rengar, assassin rengar v2). Doing things like making BTN build out of machete just gives 300 gold of wasted stats top-lane, this seems to be the case with many top-lane champs where they cant only be a top lane champ... why is this. Also wouldn't it simply be easier to balance his kit if it were top-lane focused?


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Robo19

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Thank you for keep us all informed and involved in the development of this champion (something people take for granted far too often) but on to the thread!
I have been following this thread ever since I got wind; personally I loved Rengar on day 1 when his overall play was even more scary in terms of burst-power!
Watching every change that went into this champion it wasn't until I played him a few weeks ago that I noticed there was a problem. Everything you said was 100% DEAD ON about him, about suicide-bombing the ADC, about getting fed and Triple-Q-WRECKING the entire team. All of it!
Some may not see the problem or maybe they do and just play ignorant though either way I always like to see versatility in a champion and I used to see so much of that in Rengar yet over his history slowly fade away (his build in particular).
I am VERY excited to see these changes come to public test and look forward to playing the new hunter.

P.S: The developers had the same skepticism when read on paper yet all of them seem to express the same assurance that once PLAYED it feels good!
Have faith in the developers, after all they have taken this game this far to heights no one saw coming.


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Servantofthe99 View Post
they already ruined that by completely taking away his ganking ability by letting the enemy know he's there.
Enemies only hear you ulti if they are within the radar range(correct me if im wrong). You can easily ulti out of range of the enemies so they don't hear you. It shouldn't be that big of a problem since they said the speed and duration is increased. Rengar's level 1 ultimate radar range isnt that big.


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Robo19

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by View Post
Could a Rioter respond to this ?

Why do you guys seem so intent on making Rengar a viable jungler? Why can't he just be a top-laner, as this is where I and many others have fallen in love with the character, as this is where he has been the most viable in many of his iterations (ap rengar, assassin rengar v1, tank rengar, assassin rengar v2). Doing things like making BTN build out of machete just gives 300 gold of wasted stats top-lane, this seems to be the case with many top-lane champs where they cant only be a top lane champ... why is this. Also wouldn't it simply be easier to balance his kit if it were top-lane focused?
Not a rioter but I'd hope you would be open to summoner opinions.

Jungle is always finical and you are correct it would be easier to balance Rengar off of a binary play style in top lane yet you should know by now Riot doesn't design champions for lanes, it is the players that "fit" them for the lanes!

A good example of this is in Lucian, who is at the core a ranged AD, yet can be built AP and has poke that rivals that of a caster! Has the same weaknesses of both ranged AD (in terms of itemization...ya true Ranged AD is always going to be squishy) but also caster weakness (the ranged poke comes at a heavy cost of mana, he is hungry). So is he a mid laner? Is he Bot? (in reality any ADC can go mid, any caster can go bot; this defines the problem with META)

Overall it is Rengar's versatility that drives the creative minds of summoners of all the possible ways to play and build him.
This is a common trait among bruisers (which rengar is slated to be) as Garen, is he going spin-to-win crit or super tanky Judgement? Pantheon - Is he going to Q me down and maximize his burst to take advantage of his free crit? Or is he going to conserve his durability and maximize on his CC to aid in team kill & fights?

As said before and known very well by any game developer, you can NOT predict how a champion will be used/player (AP rengar wasn't entirely intended, not to THAT extent) so if you want an extremely boring binary play style to rengar, you are in the wrong game my friend.


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Servantofthe99

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaDivingPoop View Post
Enemies only hear you ulti if they are within the radar range(correct me if im wrong). You can easily ulti out of range of the enemies so they don't hear you. It shouldn't be that big of a problem since they said the speed and duration is increased. Rengar's level 1 ultimate radar range isnt that big.

the enemies get an icon above their head too for the duration of his ult. the range and speed is likely to be leveled. just as a comparison, Warwick's W passive has a range of 4700 at max rank as well as a 40% speed increase as well as revealing all enemies in that range below 50% health. and its a toggle ability at that (4s cd if you choose to turn it off).

in any half decent game the jungle entrance is likely to be warded anyways, and if there's a stealth champ, then probably pink warded, making his ultimate a bootleg version of warwick's passive regular ability. there is no point to stealth if the enemy knows you're there. they will run back to tower/hug tower guaranteed.


also just noticed that his ult might make him the only champ where NOT using the ult might give a more successful gank


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Robo19

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Servantofthe99 View Post
the enemies get an icon above their head too for the duration of his ult. the range and speed is likely to be leveled. just as a comparison, Warwick's W passive has a range of 4700 at max rank as well as a 40% speed increase as well as revealing all enemies in that range below 50% health. and its a toggle ability at that (4s cd if you choose to turn it off).

in any half decent game the jungle entrance is likely to be warded anyways, and if there's a stealth champ, then probably pink warded, making his ultimate a bootleg version of warwick's passive regular ability. there is no point to stealth if the enemy knows you're there. they will run back to tower/hug tower guaranteed.
Do you have a suggestion that can "fix" his ultimate while meeting the following criteria?
:
1. Can not stealth and burst without any form of retaliation (wards excluded)
2. Can not be the same as another champion (eve in particular)
3. Can not stay as it is (falls under criteria 1 as well)

It is a good thing your answer (whether you post it or not) won't be taken credible by other players as it is impossible to meet all 3 of these and keep everyone happy! You would be getting the same negative responses that you are contributing to this process. Don't take this in offense, but please post something that can help instead of joining the whine-tasting band waggen.


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Servantofthe99 View Post
the enemies get an icon above their head too for the duration of his ult. the range and speed is likely to be leveled. just as a comparison, Warwick's W passive has a range of 4700 at max rank as well as a 40% speed increase as well as revealing all enemies in that range below 50% health. and its a toggle ability at that (4s cd if you choose to turn it off).
Did they ever clarify how the actual Icon on their head works. Is it rengars actual vision range(The circle around rengar in which he provides vision for himself) or all sources of vision.

Im assuming the particle only shows up from rengars own vision circle it shouldnt be too bad. Some people have super bad reaction times im estimating only about 1-2 second with his leap range is all the enemies has to react. With the new Q chance technically you can Emp Q > Q > W > EMP E > E for damage and snare and a slow after. Assuming they dont **** up his Bola by making it a skill shot...

Its still in the testing phase and not even out in the PBE so little can be said right now.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaDivingPoop View Post
You do realize that your suggestion has a fatal flaw. If rengar's Bola were to be made into a skill not it WILL NOT ignore minions. They are trying to make changes so rengar can become a stronger viable jungler. So having a skill that ignore minions kinda seems counter productive.

His Bola should just stay target select the way it is. Only thing they can improve on it is either remove the decaying slow or only decay half.
They could easily make it a skill that ignores minions and only strikes champions, and in fact it would be better for Rengar as a jungler because it would improve his Ganking. With the buffs to his Q train, i imagine that his clearing will go up susbtancionly, so they could make this change