A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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The Italian Ice

Senior Member

07-21-2013

I still feel like this reworking is aimed towards Rengar being soley a jungler. Will top-lane cat still be viable?


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

07-21-2013
37 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Scarizard, all I ask is that you keep Dominion in mind. If the hunters machete passive becomes any significant portion of the item, you've suddenly screwed Dominion players out of wanting to buy it.
caught this right before shutting down - no worries here if we go through, imo. The machete passive would just be an enabler for jungle, but not something i forsee as a huge part of its budget or in any way interacting with his upgrades.

in the end, if we decided to emphasize it stat-wise (give increased butcher/maim in some form) we could always special-case a dominion version of the item like we do RoA/AA Staff and a few others specifically to dominion. i'd like to avoid it either way, since HA and Dom have no use for it, even though TT/SR would find it just fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Italian Ice View Post
I still feel like this reworking is aimed towards Rengar being soley a jungler. Will top-lane cat still be viable?
yes

NIGHT FOR REALS


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Elementalos

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunkmaster View Post
Hey could a Rioter answer this?

Due to Rengar's 0 counterplay (currently) yet Evelynn was given a detection radius, TF has an overhead warning, Nocturne's DAAARRKKNESSS and lights out on the map.

Why was Rengar an exception to these rules? Was he designed that far back before Nocturne, Evelynn's rework happened?

Did you fear this during his creation process?
I'm not a rioter, sure... but I think the thought process here is about sphere of influence. Comparing the four... TF's is semi-global, Noc is super long range, Eve's is permanent.

Rengar's has the smallest sphere of influence and is mechanically the most similar to a "normal" stealth mechanic (it's very mechanically similar to a strong twitch Q after all), so on paper it needs the least 'extra' counterplay thrown in.


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Furi Kuri

Member

07-21-2013

Still no numbers on Qs new damage, if it does more/same over time than current Q. With no info other than it has less burst, all we can assume is that Riot is nerfing Q.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
caught this right before shutting down - no worries here if we go through, imo. The machete passive would just be an enabler for jungle, but not something i forsee as a huge part of its budget or in any way interacting with his upgrades.

in the end, if we decided to emphasize it stat-wise (give increased butcher/maim in some form) we could always special-case a dominion version of the item like we do RoA/AA Staff and a few others specifically to dominion. i'd like to avoid it either way, since HA and Dom have no use for it, even though TT/SR would find it just fine



yes

NIGHT FOR REALS
I hope that means the aim is for Jungle Rengar to be viable. Is that correct?

Also, will he still be an assassin of a sorts, or is he now more of a bruiser?


Sorry for these repeat questions, I wouldn't keep pushing them if I didn't like the game (And Rengar) enough to press it so hard XD. I just really want to back this rework, I don't want Rengar's persona to be ruined is all.


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Xetelian

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

Rengar needs to be tanky


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C13Magnum

Member

07-21-2013

Have you thought of just removing stealth from his ult completely? Hecarim and Rammus bypass wards just from pure speed, I would take a faster run speed boost over this stealth warning mechanic because it seems like this will warn people who don't even ward. At least with pure run speed he can still sneak up on people through brush or lack of wards. Plus I've always thought then you could allow him to leap a few times after his first jump, giving him better re-engage and therefor a more viable kill window. He becomes less stealth cat and more leap cat, which is more the fighter paradigm that you seem to be pushing him towards.

I'm curious what the range of the warning is. If it is when he can see them, as it is stated in the first post, then that would be 2/3/4k range that his ult gives him, or the 1k range of a normal champ? Personally I would prefer the change to be that the icon appears when the enemy champ could, assuming lack of stealth, see rengar instead of the other way around. Gives rengar a more stealthy feel, even while ulted, because using bushes or terrain well can allow for very little warning, whereas brute force charging at them will give more warning, and teams are rewarded for warding well, even with no pink wards.


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Tryingtohard1235

Junior Member

07-21-2013

The only thing I'm thinking about having a warning to them when rengar has ulted is do the hunted know that they are being hunted?


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Lee Sinn

Junior Member

07-21-2013

Last time rengar was nerfed, I believe you guys reduced the amount of AD per level on him. Will we see him getting back his old AD/per level stat because it was a very notable change, damage-wise and also is definitely needed on this new fighter oriented Rengar that is being released.


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Thanatos Noa

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The only major question I've seen here that I haven't answered is:

"Why can't Rengar be an assassin?"

That's a question I can't answer as I'm not directing this rework. Like Wav3break said, he's always going to be on the assassin side of the fence. Stealth ultimate + double cast just does that to a character. My guess would be that he doesn't have a good escape to make the assassinate and leave pattern feel good. Similarly, Assassin Rengar he has no fallback pattern, unlike Kha'zix who can evolve poke.

Scarizard will be back in a few days and I'm sure Rengar will be a hot topic. We'll all talk more about this thread and I know Wav3break has been doing a great job of following this topic.
Xelnath quick remark...if having no fallback pattern or no good escape disqualifies Rengar from being an assassin.. what is Talon?

Talon has no fallback pattern besides "afk farming" to try to catch up. His disengage is flash, hoping an enemy is out of the way for cut-throat, or burning ult to run (a horrible idea, because it reveals your position anyways)...
Yet he's an assassin. Why can't the kitty be one?