A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Nexus Crawler

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango027 View Post
I low HP target is also hugging tower.
An Eve gank is able to take someone from 100 to 0 with her ulti at 6
Eve also has 0 build in sustain (hp) and no non-ultimate durability for use inside the jungle or for dueling.

Honestly if Rengar can 100>40 someone he'll still be strong due to his ability to dish out sustained damage, dive, and heal. Not to mention he scales off of AD meaning his AA's will be scaling as well as his abilities, which scales again with (and I believe it's been stated he's retained his AS buff) his Q giving him a almost hyperscaling between Q's and AA's.

Even if he does not kill them, which he probably will if he uses his ultimate, and bola smartly (and he could even utilize Red buff) he's certainly going to blow their flash. Either way it's a successful gank.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furi Kuri View Post
All they told use is it will take longer to kill people without giving us any number on the AS buff, and AD nerf on Q.
Exactly why I'm asking. Those changes sound dangerously close to changing his role from assassin to bruiser, but I don't know the numbers, so I'm asking. Until I heard about the Q changes, I was comfortable with the changes.

I mean, better to ask than to jump onto the "No, I hate change," bandwagon.


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Ailwuful2

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Xelnath
more importantly
the hell are all those Zyra games? And you've been doing Zyra jungle?
Also, doesn't the fact that even playing Zyra you go with spirit of lizard elder make it seem like the spectral one is too weak or something? Which is weird....


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Elementalos

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Ah. I'm trying to be empathetic. I was really worried about this rework, too. So much so that when I heard Scarizard was doing it, we went out to coffee to talk about it for an hour. Then he explained what he wanted to do and why and I felt like it was a good direction.

I was worried Rengar wouldn't be fun the way I wanted to play him anymore. Now after playing around with him, I feel like I might be able to have way more fun him now. The ult warnings means I can use it to make my opponents run away scared if I'm fed without putting myself in danger.

That's psychological power he didn't have before that can save allies.
Makes sense. Psychological power is fun. The "Q-train" thing you guys were talking about sounds cool too. But realize that most of us don't have the ability to try him out for himself or the ability to go have a cup of coffee with one of the developers. So we get to see his ult get a lot more counterplay on it and we're told his alpha strike is losing a lot of power. It sounds worrisome without being able to try it out ourselves.

The big concern here is that, while we can agree that nearly impossible to react to stealth engages combined with massive burst is a problem... that by tackling both rather than one or the other you're neutering his effectiveness.

So that rather than having someone you can see coming but is hard to stop once he gets there or someone who you can't see coming but you can run away from, you're combining the worst aspects of both and creating someone who not only has a lot of counterplay, but then has a kit that doesn't require a lot of counterplay because he's going to tear you apart relatively slowly (using Scarizard's 5-6 second numbers).


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FlatCap

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

elementalos hit the nail on the head.

another thing i adore is that icon you guys came up with. well done.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

07-21-2013
32 of 81 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vae Victis View Post
@Xelnath (Scarizard, Wav3Break)

I'm confused as to why you guys are making two significant changes at the same time: that is, nerfing his burst and giving enemies notification of his ultimate.

I understand that the combination of his extremely high triple Q burst and his current, no-warning stealth offers little counterplay and is something you want to change. But it seems to me that to fix it, you only have to alter one of those two elements, not both.

I understand and support the thinking behind the new ultimate. What I don't understand is why, at the same time, you also have to turn him into a Fighter. Now that his stealth has counterplay, what's wrong with leaving him as a high-burst assassin? Why do you have to change him to a sustained-damage fighter at all?
We did only the ultimate change first. Then in playtesting, Scarizard played him and the live design team felt that new Rengar wasn't as healthy as he should be. So Scarizard and Wav3break took the time to start thinking about other ways of approaching him.

The whole purpose of this thread existing now is to gather your feedback on their initial thoughts and direction. Please keep sharing them.


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Draciusen

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The ult warnings means I can use it to make my opponents run away scared if I'm fed without putting myself in danger.

That's psychological power he didn't have before that can save allies.
I will definitely get Rengar if this happens, I love a good psych out.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-21-2013

SHOW US A VIDEO OF THE PLAY TEST!!!!


Please....


If possible......


It would help more then just pictures and feelings.


please....


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BelligerentGnu

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Thanks dude, I appreciate the feedback. Do you mean personal in that I reference specific people when I call them out or when I say things like "I feel Rengar is strong now."

"I know you're probably having a bad day, but I think you need to take a step back right now."

Yeah, gotta agree you're coming across a little arrogant on that one.


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F r 0 s T i

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Ah. I'm trying to be empathetic. I was really worried about this rework, too. So much so that when I heard Scarizard was doing it, we went out to coffee to talk about it for an hour. Then he explained what he wanted to do and why and I felt like it was a good direction.

I was worried Rengar wouldn't be fun the way I wanted to play him anymore. Now after playing around with him, I feel like I might be able to have way more fun him now. The ult warnings means I can use it to make my opponents run away scared if I'm fed without putting myself in danger.

That's psychological power he didn't have before that can save allies.
The entire idea of an assassin is not to make him run away...its to kill him before he understands whats going on. Unless I'm mistaken.

I think what people are saying is that rengar is not a fighter, he is ment to kill the adc in 2 seconds. No one understand why that's a problem. if you played well and got fed enough that you can do it then you should be able to,