A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

orghak 3

Member

07-17-2013

When you balance Rengar, can you please make it so his Q does not affect towers?

His split pushing is broken, he can take down towers in seconds. Just look at the Korean scene.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
You might be right - that's why i'm just testing it for now. It could be Magical Damage Reduction, or not any flat DR at all. Armor/Mr is not only very invisibly powerful, but is universally good against everyone which is why in Rengar's case it's been nerfed pretty heavily. If there's a defensive steroid that functions far better in some situations than others, then it starts to create a set of tradeoffs that offer more tuning points down the line.

Mages cc'ing him and easily killing him in this current iteration is a tradeoff to him soaking up the damage from AD's. Might need to be the other way around - might not need to be defensive at all - but for as long as it's going to be a 'one-use fits all' flat mitigation stat buff, it can't be very powerful. I'd like to continue to explore options to try and give Rengar players a sense of 'that was the perfect time to Battle Roar and i feel appropriately rewarded for using it' instead of 'use this on CD because it doesn't matter what situation i'm in, Armor/MR has it covered'

EDIT: Because i've seen some people mention it - nowhere have i said Rengar is losing his heal. Just that the damage Battle Roar's Ferocity Bonus is dealing (Along with Bola Strike and Savagery's Ferocity Bonus) are going to be based off of Rengar's Champion Level, and not by skill rank. I didn't include the heal because we already made that change for it to scale with Champ Level months ago.
When the heal scaled with health it made him viable as a fighter. Not just an assassin, a bruiser.

What I think should be done with battle roar is make the damage reduction (whatever it may be) a passive damage reduction. The roar damage should also scale with AD imho. Like, don't get rid of the AP thing, make it a hybrid thing. (1.0 AD scaling, .5 AP scaling.) But it needs to have more power, otherwise it's still a battle nyaa when it should be a battle ROAR.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 3 View Post
When you balance Rengar, can you please make it so his Q does not affect towers?

His split pushing is broken, he can take down towers in seconds. Just look at the Korean scene.
Considering that Nasus' Q does full damage to towers to the point where, if sufficiently and obsessively stacked, will end a tower's life in two-three Qs, I don't think you can say Rengar's split pushing is broken. Also his tower damage isn't /that/ powerful with the initial Q (though it does damage), it's powerful when he does a double Q and the attack speed buff starts stacking, letting more damage power down onto the turret in seconds.

But honestly, the tower only goes down quickly if you leave him there to do it, which in the laning phase is pretty hard to do unless you're hardcore roaming.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cookie M0nstr

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-17-2013

I love the VO idea as it's always amazing and sends fear into people.

Possibly make it that the VO is heard by anybody that can be seen by Rengar, as it was mentioned before. I just want people to know that I'm on the hunt for them =D Even if they know I ult'd, that would be amazing


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hollywood Cool

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie M0nstr View Post
I love the VO idea as it's always amazing and sends fear into people.

Possibly make it that the VO is heard by anybody that can be seen by Rengar, as it was mentioned before. I just want people to know that I'm on the hunt for them =D Even if they know I ult'd, that would be amazing
I think it'd be better if everyone thinks they're being hunted, so the VO is global. It'll be tricky coding I suppose, but it would be better QoL for Rengar overall.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

orghak 3

Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cool View Post
Considering that Nasus' Q does full damage to towers to the point where, if sufficiently and obsessively stacked, will end a tower's life in two-three Qs, I don't think you can say Rengar's split pushing is broken. Also his tower damage isn't /that/ powerful with the initial Q (though it does damage), it's powerful when he does a double Q and the attack speed buff starts stacking, letting more damage power down onto the turret in seconds.

But honestly, the tower only goes down quickly if you leave him there to do it, which in the laning phase is pretty hard to do unless you're hardcore roaming.
There is no comparison with Nasus. Nasus has to stack his Q. Rengar is played exclusively as a split pusher in Korea because he can take your tower in seconds.

When he is reworked, his Q should not do bonus damage to towers, the attack speed bye tself is enough.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Accommodator

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I want him to kill people - Rengar's a damage dealer and that's what he does. I would just like him to kill people over 5 or 6 seconds than 1 to 2.
5 or 6 seconds is forever in a team fight however.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CornerPocket

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Nocturne ult isn't Global either.... I have a feeling you're not listening all that well to what a lot of people have been saying. Having a global notification that Rengar is stealthed gives me people warning that he most likely going to jump on somebody, and if you happen to be that person who's overextended/in a bad spot, you better prepare for that. I fail to see how that would be a bad thing. It accomplishes the wanted effect of notifying everyone and at the same time, doesn't let the one person you're actually going for be like, oh he's after me, better back out of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Nocturne's Paranoia is global - you remove vision from every member of the enemy team with a button. That's a global. What i'm talking about is changing Rengar's vision range from 2/3/4k per rank of ultimate to 4-5k so that it still has an extremely wide threat radius, similar to champions like Ziggs or Lux in their influence range.
I think you're still missing his point.

He's saying that Nocturne's actual dive on his ult is not global, though the darkness is, so while noct's range on the dive is NOT global, you still don't know where he's going because the notification IS global.

He's saying that he thinks that would be a better solution to Rengar. Make the icon over the head GLOBAL so that nobody knows where he's going, just that he could be coming. Otherwise, the 1 person in top lane while everyone else is on dragon will be like "Oh sh*t! Rengar must be coming after me since I'm the only one close enough for the icon!" And he'll run.

Seems like he'd be a piss-poor predator if he gives his prey a warning.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vistavin

Junior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

I want him to kill people - Rengar's a damage dealer and that's what he does. I would just like him to kill people over 5 or 6 seconds than 1 to 2.

I want him to inspire fear into his opponents. I don't want him to inspire rage.
Compare him to Khazix. Kha kills carries in 1 rotation (maybe 2 qs), which takes 2-3 seconds. If he initiated the fight, he dies and still MIGHT kill the carry. If he leaps in DURING the fight, he can assassinate a carry and leap out. Rengar HAS NO LEAP OUT. If Rengar must jump in and take 5-6 seconds to kill a carry building pure assassin, then he is worthless and must build tank.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RickVanPrim

Software Engineer

07-17-2013

No idea if this has been suggested, so I apologize if this is a repeat.

How about making Rengar's leap passive work everywhere, but be on a 5 second cooldown (or some tweakable value), but going inside of the bush resets it immediately? This way he has a partial way to stick to targets/gap close without being fully reliant on fighting in the jungle or using his ult.