A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Only Rengar

Member

07-16-2013

I'd personally like to talk to you in private if that is possible ^.^ but these are my thoughts on your current changes

General
- Health Regen, Health Regen/lvl, and Health/lvl all increased

This looks good, definitely something riot over nerfed

Unseen Predator
-Now becomes visible at the beginning of the leap, rather than midleap

This actually sounds like a pretty big nerf, hopefully the speed of the leap stays the same but adding this and making people already know he is coming makes me worry a lot that he will be useless in teamfights just due to how easy it will be to peel him. (Don't forget this probably means people will be able to flash your jump before it connects)

Savagery
- Attack Speed removed (Temporary for now - planning on putting something else here)
Ferocity Bonus: Savagery
- Damage lowered, Attack Speed lowered, Attack Speed Duration increased

Looks like you have pretty much dumped on Q's face, this skill looks pretty pointless right now and it seems you want Rengar to be this Tanky DPS rather than assassin. It also seems you want him to be in the jungle which isn't a bad thing but I love playing him top and I feel Riot shouldn't take away his position there.

Battle Roar
- Damage increased
- Cooldown decreased
- No longer grants Armor/MR - instead grants damage reduction from Physical Damage/Basic Attacks
Ferocity Bonus: Battle Roar
- Heal unchanged
- Now deals damage based on Rengar's level

So pretty much with the nerfs to Q it seems we will be seeing the tanky Rengar come back with Sunfire/Visage and spilt all day. With the base damage and cooldown reduced on this ability it will allow him to clear quicker and even though the heal isn't scaled on health it will still heal more than it would with health scaling if you don't only stack health but build resistances.

The change from Armor/MR to damage reduction from AD sounds a little troublesome, you have totally taken out his MR buff for nothing if you want to get rid of these free defensive stats maybe make it like takes 5% reduced dmg? It kind of sounds broken so you could always mess around with the numbers.

Another problem that arises with this buff to W is the return of AP rengar. If you reduce this abilities cooldown and buff its base damage, while nerfing his Q all leads to the reason to just play AP again. The only thing I'm unsure of is how you plan on giving the damage on ferocity spells, will it do more dmg than W if im maxing it first? If not that just seems really weird and wouldn't make the "ferocity bonus" feel right.

Bola Strike
- Damage increased
- Bonus AD Ratio increased
Ferocity Bonus: Bola Strike
- Now deals damage based on Rengar's level
- Root duration increased

Once Again with these buffs towards his base damages on his E and W it seems you guys want him to return to his tanky state? Now rather than Rengar sniping off an opponent he seems to be one who roots them up deals a bit of damage and allows his team to clean it up.

Thrill of the Hunt
- Cooldown decreased
- Duration increased
- Movement speed increased
- Enemies will now receive a particle over their head when Rengar can see them; Additionally, Enemies will hear Voice Over on activation if they are in Rengar's sight range when he casts Thrill of the Hunt

I don't get the reason you add this, if you are already nerfing his huge burst why is there a reason to make him so noticeable to others? This completely ruins the most fun thing about him being a sneaky champion who scares the **** out of people. At the moment it feels this ability is going to be more used to scout people out with its low cooldown and more to just scare people off rather than using it to initiate onto someone. The reason this isn't a problem with nocturne is because his is a global darkness making everyone be scared, also his range to leap is far larger than Rengar's making it so he still can connect his gank before the enemies flee far. With Rengar you only have to get worried if you see a symbol on your head, taking away his global fear to other lanes and making it really easy to just play passive till the symbol goes away.




Over all thoughts -
Riot seems to make no sense with Rengar, at first he was this crazy AP nuker, once that was nerfed he became a tanky spilt pusher, than once that got nerfed he was unseen for a long time. At the moment Rengar is coming back into play slowly because people finally found out they can just build him full assassin. I was totally fine with this because this was how riot wanted Rengar to be played. And now with these changes it seems like you guys think assassin is to broken on him so your changing him back to this tanky champion. I personally hate these changes as a Rengar main as it totally kills his playstyle and pretty much makes him this new champion. With these changes I feel Rengar will have a lot of problems trying to fight in teamfights as he is really easy to peel if he doesn't finish off an opponent with his first leap. With the current changes Rengar seems to now be a big lane bully with increased base damage on his W and his E. He will return to maxing E or W and now with scaling damage on ferocity will just spam W in lane to heal from it. His laning will be godlike and he will just push top non stop. There is no point of him trying to roam because people will easily walk away. His ult will be used to dominate top harder, by either running away or by 2v1ing while waiting for your ferocity to recharge in ult. The thing is you wish to make him a champion who is a sustained fighter, but the problem with that is he only has 1 leap out in the open and is melee. Not a lot of melee fighters are viable at the moment because they are so easily pealed, it really saddens me you make his ult visible to all and I truly believe it will be the one of the most useless ults compared to what it is used for now.

If you wish to continue with these ult changes I beg that you atleast give everyone the icon/ sound so it isn't so obvious where Rengar is going.

I would really like to help you guys out with these changes, so if you would like to talk more and get into detail (numbers, etc) my ign is Only Rengar, I've sent both of you requests and hope I can contact you guys!

Not everything might make sense because I'm sort of just ranting and I just woke up but oh well =)


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Weazyritzstrket

Senior Member

07-16-2013

less stacks on bone tooth


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SmileyTrap

Member

07-16-2013

All i have to say is, i love Rengars Q as it is, auto attack enhancers are great, especially his. Just fix the age old bug on it...


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Gidoru

Senior Member

07-16-2013

What if you added an ability on Bonetooth such that Rengar gets an extra 1-2 seconds to jump on a target after leaving a bush.


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t4tNoFp4Ve

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Thrill of the Hunt
- Cooldown decreased
- Duration increased
- Movement speed increased
- Enemies will now receive a particle over their head when Rengar can see them; Additionally, Enemies will hear Voice Over on activation if they are in Rengar's sight range when he casts Thrill of the Hunt

Dont do this please
Dont kill Rengar, dont kill him please

You can't give Rengar an "alert" on his ultimate, he's not like Twisted Fate or Nocturne
He can't dash at super speed through terrain, he can't appear right next to you, and on top of that, you are giving an icon that COMFIRMS his position, unlike TF and Nocturne
Rengar MUST walk to the enemies and unless he surpasses an Ult'd Quinn's movement speed, this is what will happen

Scenario, Bot Lane: Tribush warded, river warded ~ Rengar decides to go with ultimate from behind the tower
-Enemies hear the roar and start running to tower
-Enemies see the icon pop on their heads because they KNOW that Rengar is coming from MORE than 2000 units away (at lvl 1)
-Enemies get to tower safely while Rengar wasted his ultimate

That will be absolutely every case scenario for Rengar with this change ~ not to mention that you are ruining his Teamfight initiation potential (yes, good Rengar players can initiate fights giving full vision of the enemy team and positioning himself correctly), but this wouldnt be posible either because they will just go "oh, Rengar ulti'd, let's back until it's over and re-engage on the ult-less Rengar

DONT GET THIS CHANGE THROUGH, you will effectively destroy Rengar and his predator feel completely ~ many of us still play Rengar ONLY because of the sensation, and this will remove it completely

I for one, will never play Rengar again and stick to Evelynn only if this change goes through, because there wouldn't be absolutely any reason to play Rengar if he isn't a hunter anymore

Name:  107-5.png
Views: 2718
Size:  5.8 KB Rengar....The Unseen Predator that can be seen from 2000 units away

Riot Balance 2013


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Ozbirta

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Please heed Only Rengar's advice... Please...


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pchannington

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Member

07-16-2013

OK. So, I bought Rengar day one. I played him in the PBE and I loved the idea of a predator stalking and assassinating its prey. I have a few ideas.

As for his W - Since Rengar is doing a ferocious battle roar, isn't the idea to strike fear into his enemies instead of give himself courage? So, how about it reduces the damage of the enemies it hits instead of boosting his own damage reduction.

As for his ultimate - I definitely think it should have a long duration. That it the most important part in my opinion. If it has a short duration, it will feel like an ambush like from twitch, but with a long duration he can really roam around and catch people out alone and afraid. I feel that even if he has to sit and channel the spell for a while, it would be worth it for that 'stalking the prey' feel. This is ideal for him to be a jungler/assassin. Think about it: he'll channel the spell from a safe distance while in the jungle in order to set up an gank, or he can gain vision of a weak enemy jungler and counter gank/counter jungle, or even as a laner he can roam while his laning opponent is away. If this happens it still gives him power of a long and useful ult while the trade-off is that he can't use it as an escape. Perfect for a predator, in my opinion.

As for the Bonetooth Necklace - Stacking and collecting trophies is cool, but the risk/reward of gaining then losing stacks makes it something Rengar players may be hesitant to buy instead of making it this really cool item that only he can have. How about this: it doesn't lose stacks and it can only have 5 maximum, but it will only gain a stack when you kill a new target. That way you can't continually get stacks from feeding off of the same guy over and over and it encourages you to gank other lanes. It should provide some flat stats no matter the number of trophies, but grant cool bonuses for getting trophies 1 through 5, like longer leap or faster movement etc.

What do you think?


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SquishyArchon

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Is it just me or does it seem like lately more and more champions are getting "S.O.S help us rework this toxic character" threads?


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xethik

Senior Member

07-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by pchannington View Post
As for the Bonetooth Necklace - Stacking and collecting trophies is cool, but the risk/reward of gaining then losing stacks makes it something Rengar players may be hesitant to buy instead of making it this really cool item that only he can have. How about this: it doesn't lose stacks and it can only have 5 maximum, but it will only gain a stack when you kill a new target. That way you can't continually get stacks from feeding off of the same guy over and over and it encourages you to gank other lanes. It should provide some flat stats no matter the number of trophies, but grant cool bonuses for getting trophies 1 through 5, like longer leap or faster movement etc.
A problem with something like this is that it isn't player number friendly. It practically breaks on Twisted Treeline, could make a Rengar player feel weaker in a friendly 2v2, 3v3, etc. on different maps, and would be too simple to stack on maps like Dominion and ARAM. Of course, map specific items work, but an item shouldn't break when you decide to do a smaller than max player game.


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ChaosBurrito

Member

07-16-2013

I actually like where these changes are going. As a rengar player though I much more enjoy going top than in the jungle and here are a few reasons why:

1. The brush is much closer and can be used in a lot more cases, I find his passive rather enjoyable and is one of my favorite aspects of the game. Ganking from grass can be much harder.

2. I can obtain rengars ult a lot faster in lane it seems, allowing me the opprotunity to gank other lanes with an approach of being a fearsome hunter. He ult is a blast, but seems to have wayyy to long of a cooldown, which is normally the case i really buy spirit visage, for the CDR. Sadly, this magic resist bonus doesnt really help rengar in the jungle.

In my opinion, These changes to rengar are appealing to person that loves going top as him. Good job!