Let's Talk about Olaf

First Riot Post
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Mjaxon

Senior Member

07-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
Hmm, I'd like to pose another question to you all.

I'm seeing the vast majority of the responses about Olaf's role referencing blowing up squishy targets as a core thing that Olaf does. If this is indeed what the character is meant to do, what is the intended counterplay from the opposing team? Is Olaf suppose to be weak to focus fire? Is a ranged carry supposed to be able to run away and turn on him after Ragnarok is expired? What is my recourse as an opponent to Olaf when he is trying to do his job of hunting squishies?
Asking about what Ranged AD Carries should do against his ult gives me a bad feeling that this rework is going to end up like Karma.


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Fuuuarrrk44

Senior Member

07-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luscious Lenny View Post
It is really not hard to understand Gizmo.

During his ulti he should be hard to kill, very hard to peel, while dealing decent damage.

His ulti last 6 seconds. It is not hard to kite your team back while he ulties.

Why even rework his kit. Revert his nerfs it is not that hard.
What you listed was the main reason he was nerfed. He was way too strong.


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DessicatedWiener

Senior Member

07-10-2013

It's clear what the olaf problems are.

Unlike effective champions, Olaf has no gap closer and relies purely on a skillshot for a mediocre slow. Compared to Jayce, Renekton, ryze, and any top, his damage, tankiness, utility, mobility, and gank potential is lower making him utterly useless.
His E doesn't scale off anything and self inflicts half of the damage dealt which makes it useless late game and impossible to take out carries which is what olaf does in team fights.
There is 0 peeling capabilities for olaf and no toolkit to take out carries.
Solution: make his ultimate give him movement speed, make his W an attack skill so he actually has burst damage, and make his undertow have higher costs and cooldowns but have a more potent slow and more damage


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FA Aokiji

Member

07-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
Updating with first iteration of changes a little later on. Should see them on the PBE soon...
How much till soon ends?


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Mistiya

Member

07-10-2013

Very very happy you're finally looking at Olaf. I love Olaf. I want to play him again. You broke him, I was so very sad!

What makes Olaf cool?

Undertow is a unique and really FUN mechanic, your ability to chase is totally dependent on if you can hit your axes but if you hit them you feel really good and strong. His voice work always just makes me happy. "I'm going!" when you walk between jungle camps never fails to make me smile.

What's fun about playing as Olaf?

Everything! His sounds and voice are perfect and very satisfying, his animations are fun, his theme is perfect. He's a Viking man who wants to throw axes at people. It's great. I think that Q is the most fun thing to land. Honestly I don't want to change anything about his main kit so I'm glad to hear this isn't a total rework.

What's miserable about playing against Olaf?

Since he gets stronger the lower health he is, focusing him first is generally a bad idea, but most soloQ teams don't really get this. If you can't burst him down, it's better to damage ANY other target. The Hard Counter to Olaf is always going to be displacers like J4 and Anivia, or carries with built in flashes like Ezreal and Ahri so teams that don't have any of those things have some trouble with him.

What role does Olaf fill in your mind?

Offtank + Diver. Olaf is not a pure tank, he is a damage dealer, but he needs to be able to soak a lot of punishment since he doesn't have a gapcloser or CC other than his slow. He should be able to use his lifesteal and passive to survive long enough to kill at least one of the carries, and also be a real threat to their tanks with his true damage if need be.

Do you view Olaf as a Top Laner or a Jungler?

Jungler. He was my very first jungler and he taught me how to play the role. I don't really care about playing him toplane. Olaf clears his buff camps quickly and then has strong ganks with his Q. He hasn't got any CC besides a slow so he really isn't OP but since he has decent sustain and is a very good tower diver he works really well as a jungler.

What items do you want to build on Olaf?

Things that build out of Giant's Belts, and a Black Cleaver. I want to be tanky enough to run through the enemy team while soaking damage. It's OK if I die after I get the carry.

Closing Thoughts: All I want from Olaf is to be able to run into a fight and STAY IN IT till I die. Olaf isn't made to poke, he's made to wade in and FIGHT for his life. He's made to chase down slippery carries and punish them. Fix his Q so he can do that again, make him an actual threat again, and we're solid.


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sBenn

Member

07-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashGizmo View Post
Updating with first iteration of changes a little later on. Should see them on the PBE soon...
Well... that was fast.


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TheGrammarHero

Senior Member

07-10-2013

replace every single olaf ability with draven's. Then name him draven.


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SmashGizmo

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QA Analyst

07-10-2013
15 of 42 Riot Posts

I'm not 100% sure about PBE deploy times, so I can't say exactly, but suffice to say that the initial changes are in and starting to get some testing internally and they will go to PBE the next time PBE patches.


Sooooo that being said, let's get into the nitty gritty... Keep in mind that all the changes you see here are subject to heavy iteration before you get to see them on live. Numbers may shift to varying degrees, mechanics may be added and/or dropped, etc etc etc.


Olaf Changes, V1.0

Undertow

  • Slow no longer decays
  • Now has a minimum throw distance of 450 units
  • Axes now stick in walls and structures rather than going through them

Slow decay on this ability ultimately doesn't make sense to me. The slow decaying accentuates the power of re-applying the slow repeatedly and lessers the impact of hitting the epic long range axes that seem like they should feel the best to hit. If I need to re-tune the slow numbers from here to be slightly less severity or duration, so be it, but I can't conceptually get on board with this ability having a decay on its slow.

Minimum distance is being added to this ability to limit Olaf's ability to abuse repeated minimum distance Axe throws on top of Melee range targets. Ultimately this pattern is counterintuitive, adds a lot of burst to Olaf and makes the gameplay confusing to opponents who can't even see the axe in the ground since he immediately picks it up.

The wall sticking change for Undertow actually just started as a cool thematic idea from CertainlyT, but it also happens to solve a couple big issues I was running into with Undertow. The first is that it lets Jungle Olaf circumvent the minimum distance on Undertow to preserve his fast clear by standing near a wall and repeatedly throwing axes. The second is that it strips a bit of extraneous power off of Olaf in terms of scouting (i.e. checking baron over and over with it) and sniping, which ultimately aren't very cool places for a Viking to have power, which frees him up some power budget to spend on cooler stuff.


Vicious Strikes
  • Mana cost reduced to 25 from 40/45/50/55/60
  • Now provides 1% enhanced healing from all sources for every 2% health Olaf is missing during the duration THIS IS IN ADDITION TO THE CURRENT MECHANICS ON W, NOT REPLACING THEM

At the end of the day, this ability feels like it should be cooldown gated, not mana gated, so I've reduced the mana cost to a fairly negligible number to reduce this ability's strain on Undertow.

The scaling increased healing effect on this ability is meant to supplement Olaf's fight-your-way-out pattern and better communicate to players when they want to use their W. It also opens up a tuning lever on his lane-sustain so that he feels less oppressive when ahead and more resilient when he's behind. I also hope that this clarifies Olaf's itemization options (in particular, opening up lifesteal items more for him), though that remains to be seen as I'm not really convinced that players plan around this interaction with Spirit Visage (same mechanic) at the moment.


Ragnarok
  • Mana Cost removed
  • Cooldown changed to 120/100/80 from 100
  • Active duration changed to 5 from 6
  • New Passive Added: Olaf gains 10/25/40 Armor and Magic Resist passively
  • Active Changed: Olaf removes all disables from himself and becomes immune to them for the next 5 seconds. During this time, he gains double Attack Speed from Berserker Rage

As with Vicious Strikes, it feels crummy for Ragnarok to constrain your ability to cast Undertow and as this will only ever be used once per fight, I've just stripped the mana cost off completely.

The larger changes here are about clarifying Ragnarok's purpose and counterplay. After looking through feedback on how players perceive the counterplay and discussing this with numerous designers, I've come to the conclusion that Ragnarok is a more interesting and healthy ability if it functions as a trade off rather than a god mode. With this direction in mind, I've added a passive Armor/MRes component to give Olaf the tankiness he needs to be a front liner with no mobility and made the Ragnarok button press decision more about becoming unstoppable in order to do damage, at the cost of the resilience from damage. Hopefully this opens up the option to the opposing team to focus fire down the un-CCable monster coming for their Carry, rather than leaving them feeling completely resigned to Olaf being able to get to and kill their Carry. With this being the new decision point surrounding Ragnarok, I've scaled the duration back 1 second, as I believe that Olafs should now be casting Ragnarok slightly later in teamfights once he's closer and facing imminent CC rather than using it at the start of his approach to mitigate all the incoming damage. I also think these changes holistically add a nice side effect of giving CC-users a small satisfaction out of forcing Olaf's ult by hitting his resists, thought this is admittedly pretty minor.





So this is where I'm starting with my changes. Feel free to let me know what you think and I'll try to address any concerns you guys want to bring up. As I said before, this is an early iteration and I expect to be doing a whole bunch of iterations before getting to where we need to be with Olaf.


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Coldmanj

Senior Member

07-10-2013

so definitely quite a bit of changes. I like them for the most part. The added armor and MR passive is great for olaf and frees him up for more damage items and options or for being an even more powerful tank for the team. i can deal with the undertow change, many wont like it but i think it is intuitive and fun.

what I dont particularly like is that there is no boost to some of olafs other abilities now that there is a range constraint to undertow and his armor pen has been removed entirely. could you go into more detail as to where the power from these mechanics and stats have been redirected to?

Edit: I am also wondering with the mana changes and the new minimum distance added to undertow why mana is even on olaf now, the previous infinite axe issue should be resolved with the minimum travel distance. keeping him tied by mana seems silly if only undertow is using it


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Gaeta

Senior Member

07-10-2013

It sounds like the passive Armor and MR are lost when Ragnarok is cast (and maybe also while on cooldown)?