Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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Krimson62

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I really wish someone would write a Riot Dictionary. I'm not sure which term to use.

Visual Upgrade - Focused on bringing the character up to modern day lol standards
Tweak - Minor changes to the character to improve game health.
Rework - Mechanical changes to the character to add strength and vulnerabilities.
Relaunch - A reboot of the character both visually and mechanically to create a cohesive fit in league of legends. (I consider Sejuani a relaunch)

A full rework means that the core philosophies of the character are out of line. In Yorick's case, his meaningless ghouls, choice of abilities and their interactions and his role in the game.

I strongly suspect the right places for a character like this are Top and/or Jungle. Support Yorick exists only because of his free, frustrating harassment.
If that's the case i feel yorick would need a full relaunch

New Skin
New Abilities
New Ghouls, but keep the old ones somehow in a classic skin form


I think the possibility of finally making him live up to his potential could also be a fun part of the lore. since obviously the shadow isles have plans for him. as shown by the twisted treeline quotes. he is supposed to be massing an army... but for what?

mind you i love yorick, he's got an awesome design, but he could be so much more


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Whisla

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I'm generally a fan of multiple roles. I question if Yorick players love the idea that they are a new form of Thresh though if I focused on making him work in that role. Hide in the bush, jump out and scare the enemy, harass down, hard to kill, etc.
Guess im not a fan of this because then yorick really would be used soley for his ult on the adc late game. I can see how support yorick is annoying and takes a certian combo to play against but wouldnt he effectivly be sona with slightly more tank stats no stun or friendly heal? To me thresh is in a bad palce for a support, lots of cc with a good amount of dmg utility and poke.


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blindasleep

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I respect your right to disagree, but based on the feedback here, I believe Yorick is more prime for a full kit rework than possibly any other champion in the game. This is why its so important to deeply understand the exciting moments on Yorick, so we can find healthy ways to keep the awesome experiences in the game.

That said, its important his underlying philosophy doesn't change:

Yorick is a guy who should fight you.
Yorick's ghouls help him fight you.



I *do* love a good shovel smacking. It's my favorite sound on his kit.
Stop listening to every post on gd, it's half trolls, remember Karma. You listened to all the trolls screaming "full rework", now she's played less than before.She got used in tournies once in a while before.If you ask a pro now they probably wouldn't risk it unless you payed them to, and then you'd probably have to give them the full prize share because that's the risk you'd be asking them to take.


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Arance

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Some people seem to really like this support Yorick thing, but I fail to understand how it would serve any version of he potential character, and if contorted to properly fit that mold, seems he'd be too close to treading upon Thresh's fantasy space.

I've been thinking more and more about what you've said about him being melee and having melee minions. You're right about it being problematic because then it's never good strategic choice to attack minions. I wonder if there is a way to solve that though. Like, "take down the pylons to lower the starship's shield and make it vulnerable!" that may give him a very unique (if rather obtuse) form of counter-play.


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Warrikon

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Yep. This is also why I didn't investigate a last hitting mechanic. It would shut Yorick down very hard.

When designing champs, you want to have two playstyles:

1) What do I want to do?
2) What do I do when I'm behind and need to cut my losses?

e.g. Xin Zhao wants to dive you. If he can't dive you, he maxes his W and focuses on last hitting through your harass.
I want yorick to maintain his poke, but I don't want it to be something that he gets stupid bonuses off.

Diana when she pokes doesn't get slow and sustain, infact, no champions that I know when they poke get some insane bonuses, such as a denying aspect for 5+ seconds (slow) and free sustain (without even thinking about it.)

When I play yorick, or atleast when I did, I never used my E for sustain. I knew it would sustain me but I didn't care about it because I was roughly always high health when winning the lane.

If you can turn yoricks poke into something that does not sustain him, but instead gives him an opportunity to bring up the rest of his kit, then i'll be damn happy with yorick.

just a sample:

Q; Single target hit, nuke. Releases ghouls that do damage for yorick, dependant on the stacks that he had on E.
W: Ranged hit. Releases ghouls that slow but do not do damage. Dependant on stacks he had on E.
E: Some form of poking mechanism that stacks up (much like twitch's passive) It could be really long range or something, but hard to consistently hit. Eg, it would be up every 7 seconds, the stacks would last for 12 seconds. This would mean that building cooldown reduction would make him viable for stacking up his E late game, whereas early game he is limited by his damage and skill.
R: (something to increase his entire skillsets use). Such as an aoe that constantly puts stacks on enemy (dealing damage, stacks for Q and W) and gives yorick more insentive to keep on fighting the enemy. Perhaps like a 50 second cooldown ultimate (which gets VERY VERY LOW) but makes yorick become more and more powerful as the game goes on in terms of his q and w (which would probably be his bread and butter late game).

This skillset offers yorick to make intelligent plays, with not only skillshots but also deciding if he wants to slow the enemy, deal a lot of damage to the enemy or just try to apply pressure. Idunno.

Something like that skillset PLEASE.


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Arance

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillin View Post
you seem pretty biased why is yoricks kit "frustrating harassment" how is it different from any other champ like lux support harrassment
1. Everything Lux does can be dodged.

2. All of Lux's spells have more significant cooldowns, leaving her vulnerable.

3. Lux is very fragile and dies quickly if you get to her.

Yorick has none of these.


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namalus

Member

07-01-2013

Guys, since some of you are fond of his shovel...what if he is capable to dig someone? As in ... bury an enemy along with his active available ghouls -> horrifying sounds & other stuff happens? Maybe as a suppress mechanic?


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thepantsparty

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Support Yorick exists only because of his free, frustrating harassment.
Support Yorick is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever played - it feels like it should be a complete troll build, but its mindless harass and his ult having 0 scaling of his own stats (unless he casts it on himself, obviously) makes it reasonably viable. I mean, it's probably not as funny to the other team, but the lulz from "this is way too funny, it really shouldn't work" are pretty high for the person playing him.


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Chillin

Senior Member

07-01-2013

now were talking apples and oranges, lux has long range NUKES generally it would be impossible to ever catch lux for the fear of being snared/nuked combo'd,

Yorick support does not even work right now either, ghouls do no damage and you are squished if you try that setup.


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Grab my Lemons

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
I'm generally a fan of multiple roles. I question if Yorick players love the idea that they are a new form of Thresh though if I focused on making him work in that role. Hide in the bush, jump out and scare the enemy, harass down, hard to kill, etc.
As a fan of Thresh, I quite enjoy this idea. :P

If I may, and this is just spit balling, I’d like to talk about the second mock up kit, how it helps alleviate his problems, and why and how it could make him a viable support:

“Yorick's free, ranged sustain is highly frustrating and doesn't require himself to be at risk (Compare with Nasus)”
All of the proposed main abilities, his Q, W, and E fix this problem; his slow is now centered around himself, while his ranged capabilities are somewhat situational, the ghoul passive from his Q only activating when he hits someone in melee ranged, and his E is a skillshot, presumably blockable by other targets.

“Yorick's snares and lockdown kit (W -> Q) means once you do close, the enemy has no chance to escape in an even match”
As I just mentioned, the new slow now requires Yorick to be up close and personal for it to be effective, giving the possibility of shutting down Yorick before he can do anything.

“Yorick's ultimate is too dependant on allies and feels out of theme with Yorick.”
An ultimate that refreshes his core mechanic, and thematically fits into his role as the spooky gravedigger.

“Yorick's kit doesn't give Yorick players an opportunity to be skillful.”
This is where I think this kit really shines, and in my opinion, what could make this new Yorick such a powerful support.

While I know that the kit in question is entirely theoretical I believe it provides a unique and interesting form of support rarely seen in the game. In my eyes, this new Yorick would be a “smart” support, similar to champions like Zyra, a character that most constantly predict enemy reactions and play actively. This proposed kit has everything Yorick needs to fulfill that role – a gap closer, a slow, and a root. However, the reason that makes this kit so interesting is the intuition needed to pull it off. Yorick’s slow needs to be used close up, meaning he has to get in the enemies face first. But, he has his Q. Yorick’s root can shut down an enemy carry, but he has to land the skillshot first.

Like I said, I am very much aware the tooltips are a proposed mock up and nothing is (as of yet) set in stone. I am simply expressing how much I enjoy the kit in question and that I believe it is certainly on the right track.