@Morello: About Fiora

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Kr1sys

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busty Demoness View Post
It's not that she's bad, she just has a very small niche right now due to the meta and her high skill floor.
I don't think her skill floor is very high, it's just that she's so niche she can only reliably be used as a straight counter pick for already low picked champions or ones that are just overall much more useful late game.

She's literally an ADC that attacks from Melee, at least other MADCs have either split pushing capability or some sort of global pressure.


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Busty Demoness

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Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yep. It's more noise tan truth that Fiora's bad. If you're sub-plat, play Fiora and win all you'd like.

This is more about improving the character, not buffing it. There's different levels of depth to the work and design for those.
I'm gonna have to screen shot your post now.


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Verxint

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgedawg View Post
Fiora's ult just feels buggy for a few reasons, and here are the pretty big ones

1 - It's an ultimate on a MUCH longer cooldown than Fizz's playful/trickster or Vladimir's Sanguine pool . . . and, yet, both of THOSE abilities clear turret agro AND pop projectiles. Fiora's ult DEFINITELY doesn't do the latter and only occasionally does the former. Which is really really annoying. Especially when Fiora is encouraged to wait to ult until she's lost some health and then lifesteal it back in her ult, but she can die during her ultimate before it does any damage AND have the whole thing get stuck on cooldown.
~~~ And if you want to say "that's just the way that her ultimate is designed" I will have to call the bluff here and say that both Fiora's Ultimate and these other abilities (sanguine pool, playful/trickster, etc.) describe their user as becoming "untargetable" It just doesn't make sense for the same description to be applied to both situations, and work differently in those situations. It makes even LESS sense that the non-ultimate abilities do it BETTER than the ultimate ability.

2 - It needs to reveal enemies hit by her ultimate for the duration of the attack. Why? Because you can brush-juke her ultimate. OR if you are shaco or vayne, invisibility juke it and it cancels the entire ultimate. And if you're LeBlanc, you don't even have to try to time it, your passive will automatically do it. I understand that the entire point of abilities like alpha-strike, sanguine pool and playful/trickster is to dodge moves, so that doesn't bother me quite as much, but the brush-juking and auto-juking from stealth make an already weak character even EASIER to counter.
~~~ I could understand the viewpoint of saying "just buy an oracle's elixir" to counter stealth-juking. And that is valid, but it seems very very buggy in the cases of Shaco's ultimate and Leblanc's passive where the enemy champion blinks into invisibility for literally but a fraction of a second, and I feel like this would be buggy on any champion, much less one considered as low-tier as Fiora. And, besides, Oracle's won't help prevent brush-juking. (not sure if you can brush juke if Fiora catches you alone, but I KNOW you can if she catches you with at least one teammate.
Thing about Fiora's ult - she actually comes into existence for 4 moments during the ult.
The ult is implemented such that she performs a slash on her first target, searches for a new target, performs a new slash, and repeat. She's hittable by AoE for those brief moments where she searches for new targets.

Depending on timing, this can result in you eating tower shots, dying to panth spears mid ult (it delays the projectile until the end of the "ability" which is really just the first slash). I believe I have actually been stunned out of my ult by a Taric stun, and even better, I have had AI bots cast abilities on me in that split second Fiora is looking for the next target

That whole walk-into-a-bush-and-cancel-ult thing? That's because if the person leaves vision when Fiora is doing a target search, she finds no targets and stops.

Is there any reason her ult is treated that way? Dying in the middle of Fioras ult, when its not to a DoT or something that actually makes sense to the counterplay, but its because the projectile you timed to dodge can still hit you in the middle of your ability.. How does that feel satisfying to use?


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Kr1sys

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neteru II View Post
what do you guys think about fiora in the jungle?
It's doable. Just make sure every lane has some sort of CC since Fiora has none.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yep. It's more noise tan truth that Fiora's bad. If you're sub-plat, play Fiora and win all you'd like.

This is more about improving the character, not buffing it. There's different levels of depth to the work and design for those.
Even sub plat though, she is tremendously unforgiving and she just has quirks about her character (Riposte only blocking damage, not on-hit effects AND being able to be cancelled by cannon minions, Lunge giving such a short window to use the second lunge and the general bugginess on her ult) that it feels like before we even START talking about "buffs we just need to make her feel like she WORKS.


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Porkcchop

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Wooo Fiora buffs.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

06-11-2013

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Originally Posted by Verx Interis View Post
Thing about Fiora's ult - she actually comes into existence for 4 moments during the ult.
The ult is implemented such that she performs a slash on her first target, searches for a new target, performs a new slash, and repeat. She's hittable by AoE for those brief moments where she searches for new targets.

Depending on timing, this can result in you eating tower shots, dying to panth spears mid ult (it delays the projectile until the end of the "ability" which is really just the first slash). I believe I have actually been stunned out of my ult by a Taric stun, and even better, I have had AI bots cast abilities on me in that split second Fiora is looking for the next target

That whole walk-into-a-bush-and-cancel-ult thing? That's because if the person leaves vision when Fiora is doing a target search, she finds no targets and stops.

Is there any reason her ult is treated that way? Dying in the middle of Fioras ult, when its not to a DoT or something that actually makes sense to the counterplay, but its because the projectile you timed to dodge can still hit you in the middle of your ability.. How does that feel satisfying to use?
I know WHY it happens.... but it SHOULDN'T happen.


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timtwins

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Senior Member

06-11-2013

im just glad you are honest about fiora. I'm fine if you dont rework her right away i just like to know if she is next in line or not. That being said, im glad you are focusing on yi first. He has been around forever and its good you are focusing on him.


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Verxint

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgedawg View Post
I know WHY it happens.... but it SHOULDN'T happen.
I know "why" it happens mechanically.

I don't get why it's implemented this way except for the fact that Omnislash also works that way.

Omnislash however, has a ****load more slashes and make Juggernaut invulnerable and untargetable.


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DragonTroopBeta

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neteru II View Post
what do you guys think about fiora in the jungle?
Thats how I personally prefer her. Her passive means you dont have to buy potions past the initial 5.


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