Let's talk about Xerath

First Riot Post
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Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
R as ultimate - actually felt better due to consistently having a shorter cooldown. Still lacking something... epic though.
For the ult, have you considered giving him different, or better, sounds while he's in seige-mode? I remember earlier in the thread someone said that Arcanopulse just doesn't "feel" strong because it doesn't sound very intimidating. Maybe if Barrage, Pulse, and Chains had new parts or a louder, more powerful sound, the spells would feel a lot cooler to use with the ult than normal?


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Darkearth10

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Delete or

buff his range but in compensation increase his cool downs. I see Xerath as an artillery cannon champion. He should be able to deal massive damage from afar but to reload those nuke shots you should have a long cooldown.


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KingOfTheAnimes

Junior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
So I played around with *only* swapping R and W and retuning Barrage.

The result was that laning felt easier sooner, but either the damage was insane on W or negligible and ignorable. Going to try putting some orthogonal power on this kit, along with looking for ways to make siege mode more exciting.

FYI - increased mana cost + spell pen was insanely strong. Like... in a playtest, Xerath obliterated Volibear with near true-damage. If you guys think stacking % spell pen is weak. Whelp. Uhm. Yeah. Its nuts.

First pass notes:
  • Poke in lane was still OK.
  • W as harass (due to ammo system) - very effective, but felt unfair to the opponent
  • R as ultimate - actually felt better due to consistently having a shorter cooldown. Still lacking something... epic though.
What if Xerath's root gave bonus CDR that was capable of breaking the CDR cap? That would certainly get the 'siege' feeling down.


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Judge Arcadia

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Senior Member

05-11-2013

Xelnath, change whatever you want about him really, but by the Blood God himself and the Skull Throne, if you change his voice, I will come looking for you, Bug.


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Nores

Senior Member

05-11-2013

So lets buff 51% win rate , relatively balanced champ(or borderline OP) to make him blatantly OP?


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Crownface

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
There are about 30 posts from people saying "Don't change him." Several of them are duplicates from the same posters. Yet those threads have not said "Don't change X about him."

This generic feedback says either: "I'm comfortable with him." "I like playing a champion other people don't understand" "I like playing him as a ranged assassin." or just "I like playing a champion who is hard to control".

It's impossible for me to tell from the "Don't touch him!" feedback. They need to be able to explain what aspect of his character they like. Then I can better understand which features of Xerath are:
  • Memorable
  • Unique
  • Overtuned
  • Lacking Counterplay
  • Well done

Then I can make sure we're preserving the right things, changing the bad things and creating a better Xerath experience for *everyone* in league. Including the pro-Xerath fans. (Of whom I count myself.)
The thing is, it's impossible for the current Xerath players to understand why you want to change him in the first place. Everything you've been saying is so unclear, and it sounds like you're dead-set on reworking him regardless of current dedicated Xerath players' feedback, so people are getting concerned.

From all of your posts, it sounds like you think he's in a great spot in terms of actual balance, you said you're fine leaving him as a niche pick, and you personally like to play him. The only reason you've given for wanting to change him is because of how people who don't play Xerath perceive him, which just sounds really weird. It's not even clear if you're saying that non-Xerath players perceive him as being outclassed or if they just don't know anything about him because he's rarely played, and they don't see any need to care about him because there are already so many other mages.

The list you've provided is really odd too, I wouldn't use any of those words besides "unique" to describe Xerath's playstyle, he's a skill-based long-range mage who plays differently from every other mage in the game. He doesn't have a non-ult combo, all you have is more and more frequent poke with Arcanopulse as the game goes on. That's what's most unique about him and what current Xerath players love about him, but at the same time, it's what non-Xerath players dislike the most about him.

You've most likely realized that non-Xerath players want to be able to do more damage rotating through different skills, which is why you tried out the charge-based Arcane Barrage as a normal skill, but that's not Xerath. Part of what I love about Xerath is how much is hurts you to miss a single Arcanopulse, because you don't have anything to follow it up with. It's like missing a shot as a sniper, you've just revealed your range, your delay, and your position. If you give him more non-ult damage tools, you take that away from him, you turn him into a champ who can turn mage chains into a guaranteed stun. You won't care if you miss an Arcanopulse because you have other forms of damage, you won't need to care as much about missing an Arcane Barrage because it's on a charge system, so why would it matter? Changing Xerath like that would be great for people who hate playing him now, because it would make him less calculated and "boring" but why are you focusing on them?

It just doesn't feel right, can't you explain why you feel so strongly that Xerath, as a niche champion with a 50%~ winrate is a candidate for a rework based solely on non-Xerath player perceptions? Is it really that important that he, in particular, needs to appeal to a wider base and have his playstyle changed to fit other players' expectations?


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M0b1us

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Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
There are about 30 posts from people saying "Don't change him." Several of them are duplicates from the same posters. Yet those threads have not said "Don't change X about him."

This generic feedback says either: "I'm comfortable with him." "I like playing a champion other people don't understand" "I like playing him as a ranged assassin." or just "I like playing a champion who is hard to control".

It's impossible for me to tell from the "Don't touch him!" feedback. They need to be able to explain what aspect of his character they like. Then I can better understand which features of Xerath are:
  • Memorable
  • Unique
  • Overtuned
  • Lacking Counterplay
  • Well done

Then I can make sure we're preserving the right things, changing the bad things and creating a better Xerath experience for *everyone* in league. Including the pro-Xerath fans. (Of whom I count myself.)
Then why don't you do some QoL changes BEFORE you rework him? I am all for giving Xerath a little something, but going straight to a rework is unjustified.

You haven't even tried to test or even propose a small QoL change. We pro-Xerath fans would be much more on board if we actually saw you try to change him slowly rather than just knee jerk to a rework.

So tell us why are you wanting to rework him rather than give him a QoL change?


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Sabrestrike

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
There are about 30 posts from people saying "Don't change him." Several of them are duplicates from the same posters. Yet those threads have not said "Don't change X about him."

This generic feedback says either: "I'm comfortable with him." "I like playing a champion other people don't understand" "I like playing him as a ranged assassin." or just "I like playing a champion who is hard to control".

It's impossible for me to tell from the "Don't touch him!" feedback. They need to be able to explain what aspect of his character they like. Then I can better understand which features of Xerath are:
  • Memorable
  • Unique
  • Overtuned
  • Lacking Counterplay
  • Well done

Then I can make sure we're preserving the right things, changing the bad things and creating a better Xerath experience for *everyone* in league. Including the pro-Xerath fans. (Of whom I count myself.)
I guess the most satisfying thing about Xerath is the feeling when you land the long range E -> Q. As it stands right now the more you can do that the more fun the champ is and the less dependent he is on RRR which is his primary burst but feels meh overall when playing him.

If your goal is to make him a champ built on siege gameplay I don't think you can make E -> (new) W -> Q a valid combo because it basically makes his core kit guaranteed from long range. Basically, by level 3 you have a guaranteed four spell combo.

The other potential problem with Xerath's new W becoming a core part of his kit is that it will basically replace Q in terms of Xerath player's choice for first skill up (because it's so much more reliable).

I almost think that maybe making his new W a single cast spell (no ammo system) but have it mark all enemies hit with the mage chains effect. Then, the truly good xerath players would have a moment where they could try to hit as many people affected with a followup Q and enemies would still have counterplay (as every not Zyra/Amumu/Galio sized AoE does) because people could spread out before or after the W.

His E would have to become a new spell but I think there are enough possibilities for a third spell that are more compelling than what mage chains is right now (with healthier gameplay). Just off the top of my head a few ideas could be a self targeted AoE knockback (which would let him clear people off of him while in siege mode and it could get bigger while he's in siege mode from the range increase) or a single target spell that grants vision and could be procced for bonus damage from another spell to mark high priority targets. This could preserve Xerath's long range sniper feel.

If you went with the latter option you could theoretically detonate one stun target with the targeted spell but that's still no worse than what E -> (new) W does because given the size of the AoE that's basically a guaranteed single target stun too.

Anyway just some of my random thoughts. Hope the first paragraph of feedback helps.


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Samuel L Jaxx

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SysreqVaries View Post
Only thing I would care about losing.
OMG he inveesbl!

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...2&d=1368275784


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Darklarik

Senior Member

05-11-2013

I havent played AS Xerath much, maybe 1 or 2 times when he was free.

But, i have played AGAINST him a few times. And i dont understand why people dont use him to much, my greatest bummer was that he is uncatchable. In siege mode if one gets close he can just point blank stun then run away.

My belief is he lacks counterplay. One thing i did notice when playing against him however is while he could push me out of lane and it was hard for me to engage on him (I usually use AD assassins mid), he couldent 'wrap' up the kill almost ever. just my 2 cents.