Let's talk about Xerath

First Riot Post
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Ailwuful2

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Whatever you do Xelnath, I'm convinced that all that Xerath needs in order to be more intereting is a button more interesting than E to press, and shift some of his ult's power to this new E. Right now I really feel that all cool plays from Xerath only comes from his not really interesting 3 shot ultimate burst. If I don't have the ult, rarely anyone will die, they know they can run away without dying if they aren't too low on health or way too close. His power is way too shifted towards the ult, and his E is much lower range than the other abilities, single target and long cooldown, in other words, not that cool.

Oh, and a different passive would also be peachy, but not equally as important.


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ChupaChups95

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Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
So I played around with *only* swapping R and W and retuning Barrage.

The result was that laning felt easier sooner, but either the damage was insane on W or negligible and ignorable. Going to try putting some orthogonal power on this kit, along with looking for ways to make siege mode more exciting.

FYI - increased mana cost + spell pen was insanely strong. Like... in a playtest, Xerath obliterated Volibear with near true-damage. If you guys think stacking % spell pen is weak. Whelp. Uhm. Yeah. Its nuts.

First pass notes:
  • Poke in lane was still OK.
  • W as harass (due to ammo system) - very effective, but felt unfair to the opponent
  • R as ultimate - actually felt better due to consistently having a shorter cooldown. Still lacking something... epic though.
Xelnath, I know you are addressing concerns about Xerath's lack of popularity regardless of having a 51% win rate because of his 1% hardcore fanbase. But so far, I'm not even sure if you are taking any of the suggestions and feedback from his 1% hardcore fanbase.

A lot of dedicated Xerath players in the thread urges NOT to change anything because it ruins the champion they already know and feel just to appeal to the masses that dislikes him due to him being boring. But the way your responses are written, it doesn't seem you have acknowledged that some dedicated Xerath players, like me, who dislikes the changes (moving R to W and vice versa) or any changes at all. Its like you have only taken feedback from players who doesn't like Xerath for being very boring, lackluster, etc (which I personally think isn't true, probs my biased opinion). It seems like you have only been taking suggestions from people who doesn't main him or understand him fully and ignoring the suggestions from the people who mains him and understands his ins and outs.

I just want to be assured that you know and recognize the fact that a lot of people (generally his 1% fanbase) who mains Xerath doesn't want changes to be made on any of his current abilties and would rather have a very small change on either his passive (which isn't overly necessary but would be nice) or a visual/audio rework (for those who think his visuals and sound effects are lackluster).

Sure we haven't tried the new reworked Xerath, but if we do and we (his dedicated fanbase) dislikes it, can we be assured that all changes can be reverted? And if it can not be reverted, can I be given an option to refund Xerath and the Scorched Earth Xerath skin I purchased? I purchased Scorched Earth Xerath because its great and main I him mid along side other unpopular unorthodox champions on my pool including Syndra and Viktor (which again on Viktor, I think only needs a small QoL changes on his Augments, rather than a whole rework).

He may simply not need any of these changes. Scorched Earth Xerath successfully brought the immersion needed to make his skills look powerful. Maybe a visual/sound update is all that is needed for his other skins? Also, he and Viktor are 6300 ip each which may lead to reasons why both aren't seen that much.

If you can, can you please prioritize suggestions from his dedicated fanbase rather than other people who thinks they know what they are doing with Xerath. Because at the end of the day, if that 1% fanbase didn't like the changes because any of their say aren't in it, then that means dedicated fans like me would be hella disappointed. I mean, some of the suggestions are reasonable but some just make me cringe as I read it.

There is a reason why that 1% are still playing and enjoying Xerath as we speak. Please don't disappoint them.

Its like phones really. A guy has a Sony Xperia Z or whatever. Its underrated but unique and pretty, made out of high quality materials and stuff. Then you suddenly take it away and gave him a Samsung Galaxy S4 which is made out of plastic but don't worry, its more powerful with that 8 cores and stuff, more generic and more mainstream. Its still android running behind it but both doesn't feel the same because one runs on a very simple skin while the other is filled to the brim with bloatware. And being that guy, he would be pissed because he would have to relearn a new phone again despite being android which he may or may not like.

I apologize if the post is wonky, I wrote this at 3:30am. Thats how concerned I am.


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Rewenger

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
R as ultimate - actually felt better due to consistently having a shorter cooldown. Still lacking something... epic though.
To add some epicness, some additions to this ability are required. For example, a slowing aura which lasts as long as he's in this ability. Add some cool effects like "lasers" or "energy blasts" instead of lightning in siege mode. Xerath W can also leave blazing trails while in Siege mode. :3


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Nirosu

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
So I played around with *only* swapping R and W and retuning Barrage.

The result was that laning felt easier sooner, but either the damage was insane on W or negligible and ignorable. Going to try putting some orthogonal power on this kit, along with looking for ways to make siege mode more exciting.

FYI - increased mana cost + spell pen was insanely strong. Like... in a playtest, Xerath obliterated Volibear with near true-damage. If you guys think stacking % spell pen is weak. Whelp. Uhm. Yeah. Its nuts.

First pass notes:
  • Poke in lane was still OK.
  • W as harass (due to ammo system) - very effective, but felt unfair to the opponent
  • R as ultimate - actually felt better due to consistently having a shorter cooldown. Still lacking something... epic though.
lacking something epic huh, how bout a knockback around him on activation of siege mode? Or even a knock back in certain direction. Or when Siege mode active he has an aura for spell pen / armor pen or just some aura in general.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

05-11-2013
13 of 159 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaChups95 View Post
Xelnath, I know you are addressing concerns about Xerath's lack of popularity regardless of having a 51% win rate because of his 1% hardcore fanbase. But so far, I'm not even sure if you are taking any of the suggestions and feedback from his 1% hardcore fanbase.

A lot of dedicated Xerath players in the thread urges NOT to change anything because it ruins the champion they already know and feel just to appeal to the masses that dislikes him due to him being boring. But the way your responses are written, it doesn't seem you have acknowledged that some dedicated Xerath players, like me, who dislikes the changes (moving R to W and vice versa) or any changes at all. Its like you have only taken feedback from players who doesn't like Xerath for being very boring, lackluster, etc (which I personally think isn't true, probs my biased opinion). It seems like you have only been taking suggestions from people who doesn't main him or understand him fully and ignoring the suggestions from the people who mains him and understands his ins and outs.

I just want to be assured that you know and recognize the fact that a lot of people (generally his 1% fanbase) who mains Xerath doesn't want changes to be made on any of his current abilties and would rather have a very small change on either his passive (which isn't overly necessary but would be nice) or a visual/audio rework (for those who think his visuals and sound effects are lackluster).

Sure we haven't tried the new reworked Xerath, but if we do and we (his dedicated fanbase) dislikes it, can we be assured that all changes can be reverted? And if it can not be reverted, can I be given an option to refund Xerath and the Scorched Earth Xerath skin I purchased? I purchased Scorched Earth Xerath because its great and main I him mid along side other unpopular unorthodox champions on my pool including Syndra and Viktor (which again on Viktor, I think only needs a small QoL changes on his Augments, rather than a whole rework).

He may simply not need any of these changes. Scorched Earth Xerath successfully brought the immersion needed to make his skills look powerful. Maybe a visual/sound update is all that is needed for his other skins? Also, he and Viktor are 6300 ip each which may lead to reasons why both aren't seen that much.

If you can, can you please prioritize suggestions from his dedicated fanbase rather than other people who thinks they know what they are doing with Xerath. Because at the end of the day, if that 1% fanbase didn't like the changes because any of their say aren't in it, then that means dedicated fans like me would be hella disappointed. I mean, some of the suggestions are reasonable but some just make me cringe as I read it.

There is a reason why that 1% are still playing and enjoying Xerath as we speak. Please don't disappoint them.

Its like phones really. A guy has a Sony Xperia Z or whatever. Its underrated but unique and pretty, made out of high quality materials and stuff. Then you suddenly take it away and gave him a Samsung Galaxy S4 which is made out of plastic but don't worry, its more powerful with that 8 cores and stuff, more generic and more mainstream. Its still android running behind it but both doesn't feel the same because one runs on a very simple skin while the other is filled to the brim with bloatware. And being that guy, he would be pissed because he would have to relearn a new phone again despite being android which he may or may not like.

I apologize if the post is wonky, I wrote this at 3:30am. Thats how concerned I am.
There are about 30 posts from people saying "Don't change him." Several of them are duplicates from the same posters. Yet those threads have not said "Don't change X about him."

This generic feedback says either: "I'm comfortable with him." "I like playing a champion other people don't understand" "I like playing him as a ranged assassin." or just "I like playing a champion who is hard to control".

It's impossible for me to tell from the "Don't touch him!" feedback. They need to be able to explain what aspect of his character they like. Then I can better understand which features of Xerath are:
  • Memorable
  • Unique
  • Overtuned
  • Lacking Counterplay
  • Well done

Then I can make sure we're preserving the right things, changing the bad things and creating a better Xerath experience for *everyone* in league. Including the pro-Xerath fans. (Of whom I count myself.)


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Bouncing Beauty

Member

05-11-2013

What if his kit was oriented around long range DPS rather than longer CD burst?


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Judas Kiss

Member

05-11-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarumat View Post
How about have the increased mana cost and scrap the spell pen and instead put a cool down percentage out on siege mode like 10 or 15% so you can spam in siege and maybe make it when he isnt in siege its just a little longer than normal cool downs than now. To where you dont need to be wasting gold and items on cd reduction and buying more spell pen because he needs it. just a thought.
bumping just becuase it sounds like a good idea on him!


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Daveydude

Senior Member

05-11-2013

My biggest issue with Xerath, (and other champions like Riven, etc.) is that unless you have a very good ping, your W becomes a death sentence rather than a speed and/or range boost.

I play with around 200 ping, and as a result, I cannot use W as a speed boost, and instead it costs me a huge distance in movement, so kiting is impossible using W, and sticking to an opponent is also impossible. Finally, once entering the W state, it takes longer for me to start casting than the next person which also means I almost instantly lose the bonus range I gained from it to my ping. It makes Xerath feel clunky as all hell for anyone with a ping higher than 100. If you fix this issue, you fix Xerath for me, because as it stands he is only playable in a team fight with good positioning.

(Likewise with Riven, you can gain amazing distance if your ping is low with your Q, but if your ping is any higher, it provides minimal gain)

This is ultimately a problem with the game dealing with ping, not Xerath, but skills like that highlight it.


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slamor

Senior Member

05-11-2013

What Xerath needs is a distinction from nidalee. Him having to be immobilized to achieve nidalee's range is not satisfying.


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Aeaeros

Senior Member

05-11-2013

Xelnath

Can we talk about increasing his auto-attack range while in siege mode? I mean, even right now without much tweaking to his kit, can we talk about that?

It seems logical, plus it might actually make me feel good about landing an W E Q stun... you know being able to at least auto-attack while not casting.