Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?

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Goth Skunk

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post

Actually, it's almost-but-not-quite the opposite here. Xerath needs attention because he's not popular and yet is above the line in terms of power-level of mages - This generally implies some sort of more structural changes rather than sheer power tweaks.

As a final note, different designers work on their projects differently. For example, I tend to work off abstraction / testing / iteration more than direct forum feedback - but typically I'm only called in when people want to wrecking ball something to the ground.
There are other champions in desperate need of changes before Xerath ought to be considered.

However, I know from the few times that I have played him, her certainly doesn't feel powerful.

Keep in mind those raw numbers may look good on paper, but they also rely on the summoner playing Xerath to hit every single R and his Q. His E locks on, so that's not an issue, but otherwise there are so many options available to counterplay Xerath, considering his stun is near useless if someone has tenacity, and many champions move incredibly fast late game that landing his skillshots is incredibly difficult.


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Henry Plainview

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostStalker86 View Post
But other than that I find the champion really fun. And I don't know why other people don't.
I can tell you why. I can't hit **** with laser and his Q is frustratingly slow and short ranged for an ability that's supposed to shield you during trades.


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Silver Slinky

Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Those threads are actually created by specific Rioters who have their own methods of investigation.

For example, Meddler / Xelnath / Scarizard are very very open to discussing their current project / project(s) with the forum community - to get a better understanding of what people are saying and to rebound ideas off of people after it's all been done. It also helps them collate feedback faster and more effectively than trawling 5 or 6 months on context that might have shifted since then due to environmental circumstances.

If you see one of those guys asking for your thoughts, chances are, in the opposite monitor, they have the champion loaded up.

Actually, it's almost-but-not-quite the opposite here. Xerath needs attention because he's not popular and yet is above the line in terms of power-level of mages - This generally implies some sort of more structural changes rather than sheer power tweaks.

As a final note, different designers work on their projects differently. For example, I tend to work off abstraction / testing / iteration more than direct forum feedback - but typically I'm only called in when people want to wrecking ball something to the ground.
Xypherous what is your opinion on Kha'Zix and do you or do you not agree that he is a bit too good at what he does?


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hashinshin

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Slinky View Post
Xypherous what is your opinion on Kha'Zix and do you or do you not agree that he is a bit too good at what he does?
Terribly low armor, low survivability, no invulnerable frames (which is rapidly becoming a liability in squishy bursters...) and the inability to ever fight tanks (well except for late game when damage itemization out paces defensive itemization so hard that it doesn't matter who you are so long as you have damage itemization.)


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

05-10-2013
2 of 40 Riot Posts

Quote:
May I ask your opinion on Viktor? I know Solcrush is working on him. But I find Viktor to be a really fun mage. He has some item flaws with his passive not being good at late game or sometimes mid game.
So in the context of the Viktor thread - Solcrush basically asked for a lot of good feedback which he tried to iterate on - then Season 3 and the Korean leagues hit him like a truck in terms of his ability to actually do anything about that feedback - which is why he's been sidelined so long on making progress on Viktor.

Viktor suffers from two main problems:

1. Vector targetting is kind of an awkard targeting paradigm, in general, when you're using a mouse. It's something like a minimum combined 3/4 inputs where most other spells can be condensed into 1 - which always makes Vector targetting weird.

2. Viktor's augment choices aren't really being apparent - so his flexibility as a mage and his utility as a mage is somewhat hindered. FeralPony has a little more context here, but personally, I wonder if approach Volty showed with Khazix would work better for Viktor - let him opt out of one spell, rather than having to pick one spell.


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Zeal Armstrong

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Just wondering, are you ever going to be designing any new champions again sometime Xypherous?

Also about Viktor, I'm not so sure if the opt out of one spell option will really help. Even with Kha'Zix he's been figured out to the point where his evolutions aren't that much of a choice anymore, you almost always see W>E>R as his evolutions. Either way the important part would be making it so each upgrade option is appealing enough to be a legitimate choice rather than "the bad upgrade you don't want to get."


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hashinshin

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
So in the context of the Viktor thread - Solcrush basically asked for a lot of good feedback which he tried to iterate on - then Season 3 and the Korean leagues hit him like a truck in terms of his ability to actually do anything about that feedback - which is why he's been sidelined so long on making progress on Viktor.

Viktor suffers from two main problems:

1. Vector targetting is kind of an awkard targeting paradigm, in general, when you're using a mouse. It's something like a minimum combined 3/4 inputs where most other spells can be condensed into 1 - which always makes Vector targetting weird.

2. Viktor's augment choices aren't really being apparent - so his flexibility as a mage and his utility as a mage is somewhat hindered. FeralPony has a little more context here, but personally, I wonder if approach Volty showed with Khazix would work better for Viktor - let him opt out of one spell, rather than having to pick one spell.
3. Viktor's base stats are completely abhorrent for a champion with that low range. Really, less health than Vlad even without Vlad's passive?

Viktor has less survivability that Xerath ignoring Xerath's passive and viktor's shield.. Viktor has less survivability than Xerath.

#RiotneverlooksatSwain'sandViktor'sbasesurvivabili tystats.

4. Viktor has an insanely low APratio/second rate. 0.65 at 5 seconds when 0.6 at 4 seconds is considered to be low. 0.7 at 13-9 seconds on a skillshot? A very hard to hit skillshot?


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Naritori

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
So in the context of the Viktor thread - Solcrush basically asked for a lot of good feedback which he tried to iterate on - then Season 3 and the Korean leagues hit him like a truck in terms of his ability to actually do anything about that feedback - which is why he's been sidelined so long on making progress on Viktor.

Viktor suffers from two main problems:

1. Vector targetting is kind of an awkard targeting paradigm, in general, when you're using a mouse. It's something like a minimum combined 3/4 inputs where most other spells can be condensed into 1 - which always makes Vector targetting weird.

2. Viktor's augment choices aren't really being apparent - so his flexibility as a mage and his utility as a mage is somewhat hindered. FeralPony has a little more context here, but personally, I wonder if approach Volty showed with Khazix would work better for Viktor - let him opt out of one spell, rather than having to pick one spell.
Personally I really enjoy the feel of vector targeting for Viktor and I'd want that to stay.


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Drozzi

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
So in the context of the Viktor thread - Solcrush basically asked for a lot of good feedback which he tried to iterate on - then Season 3 and the Korean leagues hit him like a truck in terms of his ability to actually do anything about that feedback - which is why he's been sidelined so long on making progress on Viktor.

Viktor suffers from two main problems:

1. Vector targetting is kind of an awkard targeting paradigm, in general, when you're using a mouse. It's something like a minimum combined 3/4 inputs where most other spells can be condensed into 1 - which always makes Vector targetting weird.

2. Viktor's augment choices aren't really being apparent - so his flexibility as a mage and his utility as a mage is somewhat hindered. FeralPony has a little more context here, but personally, I wonder if approach Volty showed with Khazix would work better for Viktor - let him opt out of one spell, rather than having to pick one spell.
That first one is made irrelevant by smartcasting, I've never had issues aiming his spell, I actually think it's easier to hit with cause of it's long range.
I don't think I've ever read any complaints about rumble's ultimate for probably the same reason.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

05-10-2013
3 of 40 Riot Posts

Quote:
3. Viktor's base stats are completely abhorrent for a champion with that low range. Really, less health than Vlad even without Vlad's passive?
There's more than a little bit of truth to that - Increasing a character's base statistics generally removes a potential early game fail point that the character may have. It just generally means you have to remove something else about the character - because the character isn't weak - he's just being held back by his early stats.

However, I've generally seen this pattern to be more true for top lane and jungle, rather than mid-lane.


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