Why do we get the threads from Riot asking what is wrong with a champion?

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Void Wulord

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Why do we get them so late?
I would understand them if it was near a champs release but to ask what is wrong months after their release really shows how ignored the forum goers really are. If a champ has flaws it has usually been talked about and restated plenty of times already with the same points thrown around time and time again. The issue is the complaints are just ignored forever then when a Riot employee finally gets around to asking its just people posting the same things that were already discussed earlier. I didn't I saw a single point made about Xerath in that thread that I hadn't already seen multiple times in the past.

How about reading the complaints earlier and using that to make small changes over time. It would really speed this process up and actually get something done.

The Viktor thread is a great example of this. It went absolutely nowhere in terms of getting Viktor changes. It may have lots of post and great suggestions but they could be considered pointless as they did nothing. Now this Xerath thread will most likely follow the same exact path as the Viktor thread. Viktor is still one of many champions that are picked less than Xerath most of which have lower winrates. I guess Xerath desperately needed the attention before them because he is more popular and wins more?

Dont just read our complaints and tell us change may happen. Actually do something. No seriously do something.


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delishcupcakes

Senior Member

05-10-2013

1. Go on to riot balance team
2. balance every champion and role in that game while satisfying every forum suggestio
3.??????
4. Profit

I'm sorry but the presumptuousness of this thread really turned me off anything you said


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Enigma Requiem

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Because Riot wants the game to be actually balanced, and competative balance is HARD.


Trust me on this, you couldnt do better. The rate at which they DO react is ASTONISHING, considering they even put the changes on PBE to make sure they're good before going live. Back in TF2 the enforcer was broken for almost a year- it made an entire CLASS look bad, and there are only 9 in that game! (I main Spy in a steel league team, I'd like to think I know)

Riot does a great job of balance. Viktor is still strong, just unpopular. So is Xerath- dat late game be TERRIFYING.


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Srankstrum

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Too soon and you're more likely to get knee-jerk responses regarding a champion's viability. I'd say waiting at least a month or a major tournament would be good, unlike what you're suggesting.


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BrightNooblar

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Senior Member

05-10-2013

Imagine from a design standpoint.

You've got a strong champion, who is well balanced, and unpopular. Now you want him to be balanced, and popular. But you don't want him to be unbalanced, and unpopular (underpowered). And you most certainly don't want him to be unbalanced and popular (ie; overpowered)

So what do you do, reasonably? Do you just starting making changes to solve the problem, when you can't really figure out why the problem exists? Or do you focus on other champions, where you know what the problem is, and thus can reasonably solve it?

Simply buffing a champion like vik/xer, would simply make them too strong. So how do you make them popular, without buffing them, short of a whole rework? And why rework a champion who is balanced?


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AndrewRogue

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Because months later is when they ACTUALLY have a good idea about balance. Fact is, balance isn't easy to attain, especially in a game with a lot of odd variables, counterplay, and balance elements that rely on something other than raw math.


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LiminalHeretic

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Well the bad thing is that when we do point out the flaws on champions they do minuscule number buffs or look at aspects that we were not initially complaining about. In some way, just about how things have gone with Karma, I think they already have it in their mind what they want to do and are just asking us to make it seem like they are looking for input?

I have pointed out some of the aspects that make Karma lackluster (delayed CC that makes you stay at 650 range to get it off, while this too is the instant point-click instant hard CC range, etc.) Riot has gone completely with other aspects such as attempting to fix her heal (even so she will still take more damage and be CC'd hard so it won't be worth it) or just a number and CD change. So, what they have made it look like, again this may not be on purpose, is that they are mainly doing it to let us think we have some say before they introduce a change they wanted to make.

It would make me feel a lot better if they addressed our concerns and brought up discussion that allowed for a back and forth to see what really is the problem. I know I would feel better about changes that were/weren't being made because they directly addressed what the community had spoken up about in the first place.


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

05-10-2013
1 of 40 Riot Posts

Those threads are actually created by specific Rioters who have their own methods of investigation.

For example, Meddler / Xelnath / Scarizard are very very open to discussing their current project / project(s) with the forum community - to get a better understanding of what people are saying and to rebound ideas off of people after it's all been done. It also helps them collate feedback faster and more effectively than trawling 5 or 6 months on context that might have shifted since then due to environmental circumstances.

If you see one of those guys asking for your thoughts, chances are, in the opposite monitor, they have the champion loaded up.

Quote:
I guess Xerath desperately needed the attention before them because he is more popular and wins more?
Actually, it's almost-but-not-quite the opposite here. Xerath needs attention because he's not popular and yet is above the line in terms of power-level of mages - This generally implies some sort of more structural changes rather than sheer power tweaks.

As a final note, different designers work on their projects differently. For example, I tend to work off abstraction / testing / iteration more than direct forum feedback - but typically I'm only called in when people want to wrecking ball something to the ground.


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hashinshin

Senior Member

05-10-2013

I'd generally say because sitting in a dark room listening to music alone is far less productive than crowd sourcing and seeing which ideas you like.

Hell if I could just get 200 people to give me answers to anything I wanted to ask I bet I could at least get the start of an answer or the idea for an answer out of one of them.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

05-10-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Those threads are actually created by specific Rioters who have their own methods of investigation.

For example, Meddler / Xelnath / Scarizard are very very open to discussing their current project / project(s) with the forum community - to get a better understanding of what people are saying and to rebound ideas off of people after it's all been done. It also helps them collate feedback faster and more effectively than trawling 5 or 6 months on context that might have shifted since then due to environmental circumstances.

If you see one of those guys asking for your thoughts, chances are, in the opposite monitor, they have the champion loaded up.

Actually, it's almost-but-not-quite the opposite here. Xerath needs attention because he's not popular and yet is above the line in terms of power-level of mages - This generally implies some sort of more structural changes rather than sheer power tweaks.

As a final note, different designers work on their projects differently. For example, I tend to work off abstraction / testing / iteration more than direct forum feedback - but typically I'm only called in when people want to wrecking ball something to the ground.

May I ask your opinion on Viktor? I know Solcrush is working on him. But I find Viktor to be a really fun mage. He has some item flaws with his passive not being good at late game or sometimes mid game.

But other than that I find the champion really fun. And I don't know why other people don't.


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