Learning to CS for non laners

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

lnrael

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotHavoc View Post
Okay, I wanted to open up a little discussion for people to talk about good tips to get better at CSing. I personally am not very good as I am main Jungle, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs some good pointers so fire away.

What do you guys do to help yourselves get better as a laner and make sure that your creep score is good, while still looking out for ganks and other opportunities?

HELLO RiOt HaVoC you should play more arams
=D

As a laner I just make sure I know all the minions that are getting attacked - mine and theirs. I can force decisions on the enemy when their minions are about to die (eat harass to get cs, for example), and I can be cognizant of where I need to be to last hit my own minions.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eiales

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronicorn View Post
The dude is trying to ask how you can keep farmed in the jungle, yet still maintain a global presence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonedPeace View Post
He specifically asks how he can keep up in cs from the jungle and everyone gives him lane tips lol

Anyway, you pretty much need to be positioned right. You need to pay attention to when people are getting ready to back so that you can hold lanes and what not. Other than that, your jungle camps shouldnt be up for more than 30-40 seconds
Try again, please.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hekatian

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Get rid of last hitting. Make it whoever did the most damage gets the gold. (Exception being neutral monsters)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Chopinator

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Not to take away from custom games to practice, they are good to learn your champs AA animation, but the best way to learn to CS is to do it in games.

Just straight up practice in normal games. Last hitting minions in a custom game and last hitting minions in a "real" game with ganks, harrass, map awareness and all the other things that go with the game is a LOT different.

Its great if you can get 100 cs in custom by 10 minutes but that will equate to squat when you have another ADC and support constantly riding you when you try to get that last hit.

The best advice I can give (and its coming from someone who averages less than 70 cs at 10 min in games) is to watch the health of both yours and your enemies minions. If you dont have any creeps to kill you should be looking at the enemies, when he moves in to kill you get some AA on them. When yours are low, watch your enemy when you go to hit so you dont take to much harass, some minions are not worth the health you will lose to get them.
Unless you want to shove lane so you can B and your opponent is out of lane or you want to freeze outside of tower range, NEVER hit minions until its a kill shot.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Chopinator

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottzilla75 View Post
Can anyone post some guidance on how the turret will respond to a wave of creeps at its base? What're it's priorities (if it has any), or are its targets random?

I understand mechanically how it's supposed to work, but in game situations I find myself panicking and I start to autoattack just about anything with a pulse...
Champs attacking Champs, Siege Minions, Melee Minions, Range Minions, Champs.

In that order. Not 100% sure tho. Hope someone confirms.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheBlackening

Member

05-01-2013

I'm a relatively new player, as I only hit level 30 a few months ago, and my cousin who introduced me to the game explained to me how important CS is. I mostly play ADC, and I generally use the 20 minute mark as a benchmark for CS because it's a good estimate for around when things start to break apart from farming in the laning-phase to people grouping and taking objectives.

When I started playing, I was pretty bad as farming and last-hitting, so I took it upon myself to make it my #1 and only priority. I come from an RTS background, and I played SC2 nonstop before getting into League, so I feel like I have pretty good mechanics. I sure as hell wasn't going to let them go to waste by not learning such a simple and important thing! As of now, I generally get between 160-200 cs by the 20 minute mark, depending on how much aggression I am facing, how aggressive I am playing myself, and any number of other things. For every kill I get, I "excuse" myself from 10 cs, so if I end up 1-0-0 with a 190 cs, I feel ok. I made a lot of progress with a lot of help from others, and I'd like to share what helped me (as well as some things that I figured out along the way).

-A very important thing to understand about creep waves that some people might not know, but is vital to last-hitting as efficiently as possible; in a wave with 6 creeps, there are 3 melee minions in the front and 3 ranged minions behind them. The melee minions have a LOT more HP than the ranged ones, so when last-hitting, be aware that for a successful last hit, you will need to let the melee minions health bar drop considerably lower than with ranged ones; at level 1-4, you generally want to let melee minions drop to a tiny sliver before starting the autoattack, whereas you can usually get the last-hit on ranged minions when they have something like 15 or 20% of their hp left. You have to get a feel for it, though, which brings us to practicing.

-Whatever role you play, pick around 4 champions that are solid in this role to practice on. Make a custom game vs. easy AI on Summoner's Rift; add 2 bots to your team and 3 to the AI team, so it's a '3v3'; this makes it so that there is one champion in each lane and no bots are messing up your csing. Go into the open lane and focus on ONLY last-hitting for 20 minutes straight. Do not attack the enemy tower or kill the enemy champion, just farm. DO NOT KILL THE BOTS. DO NOT TAKE TOWERS OR OBJECTIVES OR NEUTRAL MONSTERS. These are unnecessary distractions, they take away from your last-hitting focus, and they give you a distorted perspective on your true gold income. Just last-hit minions, and if the enemy champion hits you, trade with it and go back to farming. Practice pushing the lane hard before you back so that you miss as few minions as humanly possible. Repeat this until you can consistently get around 200 cs by the 20 minute mark. It may seem boring, but it helps. As they say, practice makes perfect. I challenge you; can you stay in your lane for 20 minutes straight, never kill a neutral monster, and never miss even a single cs? 234 is the magic number! (Edit: Originally said 222, but I forgot to factor in seige minions. Minion waves spawn every 30 seconds, starting at 1:30. Every third wave contains a seige minion. 20 minutes, 2 waves per minute = 40 waves, -3 = 37. 37*6 = 222 + (37/3 = 12 seige minions) = 234.)

-Know your champion's auto-attack animation. Know how long it takes to start the auto-attack from the time of issuing the order, and how long the projectile (in the case of a ranged champion) takes to arrive. This is ESPECIALLY important on champions with a lower base AD, because you often will need to let minions get so low that you risk one of your own minions killing it.

-Something that I started doing that helped me; when your minions are fighting enemy minions, actually watch the projectiles from your own caster minions travel through the air from minion to minion. Notice how much damage each little ball is doing as it hits, note how long they take to arrive, be aware of which minions are attacking which minions, etc. When the minion you are about to last hit is getting fairly low, pay special attention to this. If the killing blow is in transit from an allied ranged minion, you can still get the last hit if you autoattack before it arrives. You will also get a better feel for the rather 'erratic' way that minion health drops; seemingly in larger chunks sometimes, and others in small tics. This is generally because of the way ranged minions are syncing (or not syncing) their attacks. If you are aware of your minions targets and the manner in which their attack are synchronized, you will be able to much more accurately judge when a minion is about to die versus when you can let your minions hit it one or two more times.

-If a ranged minion and a melee minion both appear to be low, remember that while the health bars appear to be the same, that the melee minion actually have more max health, so if you last-hit the ranged minion first, there is a reasonable chance that the melee minion will still be alive and you will be able to get both. If you absolutely can only get one of two, go for a melee minion; they are worth more gold.

-Every 3rd minion wave will contain a seige minion, for a total of 7. These seige minions are worth about twice as much as an ordinary minion, so in addition to pushing the lane hard before recalling to avoid missing cs, you should also be timing your backs so that you never miss a wave with a seige minion!

-Be aware of your starting items and your masteries; if you practiced last-hitting with Miss Fortune vs. AI with a Doran's Blade and you find yourself in-game as MF and you start Red Elixir, for example, be aware that you will have 10 AD less (at least, until you pop the Elixir), so act accordingly and realize that you will need to let minions get quite a bit lower to guarantee a kill.

-If you are playing an AP champion in-lane, or simply a champion with really low base AD and are having a terrible time farming, often failing to get 100 CS in the first 20 minutes, don't be afraid to just run switch out whatever reds you are running for flat AD marks. The 8.5 extra AD will help immensely with last-hitting. If you are concerned about your stats taking a hit, put things into perspective; you will earn FAR greater stats, both in gold-value and otherwise, with the extra gold you will be earning by getting last hits than the measly stats that your runes give you. So if you think it's going to hurt you to miss out on that 7.8 flat magic penetration at the start to gain 8.5 AD, remember that it can possibly earn you 1500-2000 extra gold in the first 20 minutes. That's a Haunting Guise bare minimum, so there's double the magic penetration you would have gotten from your runes, plus lots of other great stats. Runes are no substitute for efficient farming!

-Farming at tower can be difficult early in the game, but if you know how to do it, you shouldn't miss many minions at all even when the lane is pushed to your tower. If you are an AD-based champion, once you get 20 bonus AD from items (2 Doran's blades, or a Vamp scepter and a Doran's blade, any similar combination), then it's a simple process. Assuming full health minions, let the tower hit the ranged ones ONCE, then hit them for the last hit. For melee minions, let the tower hit them twice and quickly hit them for the gold. Tip: The tower will show a faint red line BEFORE it shoots from the tower to its intended target, so keep an eye on this line and be ready to attack as soon as the tower hits (or before, depending on the situation!).If you only have 1 item (or none!), or the minions are varied in health-status, it helps to get a very keen eye for exactly the size of the chunk towers take out of minions' health bars. Obviously, the chunk will be a lot larger for ranged minions with their smaller HP pools. When you get a good eye for this, you will be able to quickly identify situations where 2 tower shots will kill a minion, but 1 tower shot won't quite get it low enough for you to last-hit. In these situations, you want to autoattack the pesky minion before the tower hits it, then let the tower hit it once, then deal the finishing blow. If you're playing ADC, you can ask your support to help you with this, as they deal lower damage from their autoattacks, and there is less risk of the first tower shot killing the minion.

-When last-hitting, some people find it easier to A + left click instead of simply right-clicking; this is because the cursor doesn't change with a right click, so your effective target (the minion) for the click is smaller. When you attack-click, the cursor changes, so even if you click slightly to the outside of the minion, or the perimeter between the minion model and the ground, it will often register as an attack command, whereas with a slightly inaccurate right click, your character would simply move-command next to the minion, causing you to miss the last-hit. Also, as silly as it may sound, the human index finger is stronger and more independent from other fingers than the middle finger, which in turn leads to a more speedy reaction time, which may or may not be helpful when a few tenths of a second means the difference between getting that gold and missing it.

-Whenever you start to seriously play a new champion, or plan to use a new rune setup or new masteries that will affect your damage, be sure to do a few last-hitting practice runs against AI with the champion and settings, to get a feel for the damage, the animation, and the response time. I myself do this when I haven't played a particular champion in a week or more; small subtle differences between the AD carries that I get used to while practicing would otherwise make me miss a few crucial last hits in a real game had I not taken the time to re-familiarize myself with them, and that could mean the difference between having my second full item in time for the 5v5 teamfight at dragon and not!
-Once you get last-hitting down to your personal satisfaction, use what you've learned to harass your lane opponent! Keep an eye on YOUR minions health and position constantly as well; you know when a last-hit is available and when it is not, so identify them at the same time your opponent does so that when he moves up to last hit a minion, you have already predicted it and issued an auto-attack command on him; as soon as he steps forward to last hit, hit him and move out of range. Done correctly, you can get a totally free hit on your opponent and avoid a trade. If you are consistent enough, he may even start to be afraid to go for last hits as often as he otherwise would, allowing you to zone him from cs and xp. This is the basic recipe for winning an otherwise even lane.

Anyway, that's about all I have to add now, but I hope it helps some of you starting out to improve your last-hitting mechanics. Practice builds familiarity and confidence, and with these you can consistently farm without thinking about it, which allows you to zone and harass your lane opponent and keep an eye on the minimap better as well. If you make last-hitting an automatic, easy thing you can do in your sleep, you will notice that your map awareness is a lot better, you perform better in your lane matchups both in a defensive capacity and an offensive one, and you are free to actually focus on and think about all the other things that are going on in the game, namely your lane opponent. Have fun farming, and I do hope this is of some value to at least one person out there!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RiotHavoc

QA Strategist

05-01-2013
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSubvert View Post
Solo training in a custom game can get lonely but if you have someone there to help you, be it someone beside you watching you and giving feedback on the spot or someone in game laning with/against you, it would be worthwhile. I personally learnt csing with Ahri (who has a faster attack animation than most mid laners) playing custom bot games but as a post above stated, knowing how much damage you can do, how fast your champion's attack animation is, how fast the particle is (if ranged) and how far away from the minion you are all play a part.

Another thing I found helpful is clicking the minion you know is the most likely to be your next target and watching their health. You'll get a feel for how much damage each minion type will do then you can gauge when you need to cs or be close enough to that minion to cs.

Overall advice is pick a champion you'd lane with (in any lane) and just get to know that champion's attack animation, projectile speed (if ranged) and how much they can hit for.
Great advice! Feedback is probably the most important thing for me I think. I can't ever be my own judge, because it's so hard to tell if I'm getting better.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Know your AD value and you will have a lot easier time knowing when your attack will actually kill the minion. Also look at the health of a minion so you can explicitly see how low the bar needs to be before you can kill the minion. You dont have to do this for every minion, and eventually it will become 2nd nature, and you wont have to do it all.

Also if you are not an ADC know which abilities for your champion you should be using to farm, and which you should be using to harass.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

MisterWolfe

Junior Member

05-01-2013

Can they PLEASE get the low-elo silvers out of Bronze tier matchmaking? these people are so negative in win/loss that they make it impossible for Bronze I players to get out and into Silver! These people somehow got placed in Silver because they got LUCKY in placing and can't get demoted down to Bronze where they SHOULD BE.

Fix this please, Riot!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mich567

Senior Member

05-01-2013

Hmmm... basically, everyone has the ability as long as your computer and internet aren't horrible. Just be patient. It just requires waiting a while and practice, which can easily be done in customs. Or, you can learn on the fly. If you're not sure about the health, wait. If the minions are all focusing one, then do it a bit earlier. Don't be afraid to use abilities. Watch some pros.
Also, just check EVERY TIME the thought pops into your head I guess. Stay aware of everything. It's all just practice and patience...