@Morello, Shyvana players are dying to know RIOT has any plans for her.

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JayFoe

Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
A Wild Scarizard appears!

Shyvana is currently a very dominant early/mid-game jungler who's having a hard time transitioning late-game. Without going deeply into details on the changes we're discussing, a lot of our changes will be focused on Flame Breath and Dragon's Descent being more iconic and functional. We'll talk more later on down the patch cycle - i won't lock Live Design down for a release of these buffs (Based on testing, the scope of this could potentially increase and require more testing coverage) but it's a priority. I'm confident we can get her to a good state without just 'BUFF ALL THE NUMBERS!' - she's not the best, but she's by no means in a terrible state.

tl;dr Soon, not soonTM.
I'm curious about the first part, not because I specifically disagree but I don't really ever feel like, as Shyvana, I can take advantage of that early to mid game power.

The new jungle creeps hit hard enough that Shyvana's lack of sustain has her either running low or returning to base until she's higher level, and while she's theoretically strong as a bruiser in an early skirmish (level 2-4), she doesn't really have any way to use that. If she's farming hard she'll be at low enough health to be vulnerable, if she's focusing on ganks the only chance she has for a kill against a clever opponent is using exhaust.

Numerically, I think you're completely right and her theoretical power early game is strong, but it doesn't seem like she can actually do anything with it.

Part of that might be just the shifting meta (maybe counter jungling will make a comeback) and part of it is probably Shyvana's remarkably lackluster selection of early game items.


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Scarizard

Live Balance Designer

04-23-2013
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by othgan View Post
Dominant early/mid game? This is the same Shyvana that can barely do her first few clears of the jungle right? Her early is so **** right now it makes release Hecarim look good. I will give you the good mid game since that about when she starts to eat peoples faces off, but her bad late transition isn't why she's in a bad spot (I actually think it's better than S2 with the new items). Help her jungle clear and you will see Shyv come back.
Running 9/21 or 2/7/21 with Lifesteal Quints, AD Reds, Armor Yellows and MR Blues i'm consistently returning to my wraiths for a 2nd pass by 3:15-3:20. While this slows me to hitting Level 4 by needing to run to Wolves (the only camp available at this point), i'm still able to at -least- get to another wraith clear due to Burnout's insane wraith control and base/get Razor. It only gets sillier from there as you twin bite + razor proc the large monsters and burnout finishes the rest, making your jungling from that point forward a breeze. I'd say she's still on the upper-end of clears.

When i say early/mid, i'm specifically referring to the pre-25m point in the game. While the changes i'm referring to are designed to smooth the transition into the later game, they still reinforce her strong jungling capacity. Shyvana's identity is that of a potent mixed-damage fighter with a strength in farming the jungle - both hers and her opponents. Part of this identity is that she manages to do it without built-in sustain or CC, which actually means (compared to some of our other fighters) it's much easier to toss in more damage/speed and make you feel like a speed-tanky-mega-punchin' dragon-lady.

tl;dr 2.0 - Jungle clear getting tangentally buffed, but changes targetted at late-game transitioning. I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D


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Beija

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
A Wild Scarizard appears!

Shyvana is currently a very dominant early/mid-game jungler who's having a hard time transitioning late-game. Without going deeply into details on the changes we're discussing, a lot of our changes will be focused on Flame Breath and Dragon's Descent being more iconic and functional. We'll talk more later on down the patch cycle - i won't lock Live Design down for a release of these buffs (Based on testing, the scope of this could potentially increase and require more testing coverage) but it's a priority. I'm confident we can get her to a good state without just 'BUFF ALL THE NUMBERS!' - she's not the best, but she's by no means in a terrible state.

tl;dr Soon, not soonTM.
I honestly hope this won't be just a numbers tweak, because you've said it yourself that this isn't an issue of "Too weak, buff buff buff!" but rather a complex matter of how we can keep Shyvana; "Shyvana" without giving her something that could redefine who she is.

I enjoy the "Slaughter Everything!" vibe she gives when I play her and hope she stays that way after the change gets implemented.

Edit: I personally would like her ult become immune to CC again.. and some "upgrade" to her E function as you could pretty much buy her E and make it static..


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Krimson62

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Running 9/21 or 2/7/21 with Lifesteal Quints, AD Reds, Armor Yellows and MR Blues i'm consistently returning to my wraiths for a 2nd pass by 3:15-3:20. While this slows me to hitting Level 4 by needing to run to Wolves (the only camp available at this point), i'm still able to at -least- get to another wraith clear due to Burnout's insane wraith control and base/get Razor. It only gets sillier from there as you twin bite + razor proc the large monsters and burnout finishes the rest, making your jungling from that point forward a breeze. I'd say she's still on the upper-end of clears.

When i say early/mid, i'm specifically referring to the pre-25m point in the game. While the changes i'm referring to are designed to smooth the transition into the later game, they still reinforce her strong jungling capacity. Shyvana's identity is that of a potent mixed-damage fighter with a strength in farming the jungle - both hers and her opponents. Part of this identity is that she manages to do it without built-in sustain or CC, which actually means (compared to some of our other fighters) it's much easier to toss in more damage/speed and make you feel like a speed-tanky-mega-punchin' dragon-lady.

tl;dr 2.0 - Jungle clear getting tangentally buffed, but changes targetted at late-game transitioning. I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D

Most of us feel her clear times are ok scarizard.... it's that her ult is not working as intended for one, and her E feels useless, not only in teamfights and ganks, but also in the jungle where small creeps easily block it.

Her transition to late game was hurt a ton by the new penetration changes.

People are asking for something to help her keep up with vi, xin, lee sin, and all the others who clear just as fast, but do so more safely, and can gank better while scaling into the late game.... while shyvana has a measley 15% armor shred on one target that is easily blocked by anything


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Kirbunis

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Running 9/21 or 2/7/21 with Lifesteal Quints, AD Reds, Armor Yellows and MR Blues i'm consistently returning to my wraiths for a 2nd pass by 3:15-3:20. While this slows me to hitting Level 4 by needing to run to Wolves (the only camp available at this point), i'm still able to at -least- get to another wraith clear due to Burnout's insane wraith control and base/get Razor. It only gets sillier from there as you twin bite + razor proc the large monsters and burnout finishes the rest, making your jungling from that point forward a breeze. I'd say she's still on the upper-end of clears.

When i say early/mid, i'm specifically referring to the pre-25m point in the game. While the changes i'm referring to are designed to smooth the transition into the later game, they still reinforce her strong jungling capacity. Shyvana's identity is that of a potent mixed-damage fighter with a strength in farming the jungle - both hers and her opponents. Part of this identity is that she manages to do it without built-in sustain or CC, which actually means (compared to some of our other fighters) it's much easier to toss in more damage/speed and make you feel like a speed-tanky-mega-punchin' dragon-lady.

tl;dr 2.0 - Jungle clear getting tangentally buffed, but changes targetted at late-game transitioning. I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D
Still can't help but be scared. I love my Shyvy, and change is terrifying sometimes D:


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olridey

Senior Member

04-23-2013

not all of us have the ip for lifesteal quints or the patience just so one champ can jungle more safely but its a good suggestion for those who do


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olridey

Senior Member

04-23-2013

also cant wait to find out what your planning for her ult


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Paaske Da Bes

Senior Member

04-23-2013

@Scarizard

With these changes are they aimed at solving Shyvana's scaling per level beyound lvl 1-6 (Making building more tankiness while remaining a threat possible)

Or give her the last bit of power to easier take advantage of shyvana's ridicules scaling with damage items? (This is normally offset by low base damage at 18)

(For reference I normally only play her top lane)


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thiefaturtle

Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
I think you guys will like the change to her ult ;D
I can't wait! I am so excited

I play her top rather than the jungle. I liked the old shyvana's team presence when she ult's. After S2 her ult doesn't seem threatening and in fact is rather squishy. I am glad you guys are fixing her.


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copperpoint

Senior Member

04-23-2013

YES! After months of thread pushing, something seems to move !
Finally ! Thanks RIOT !

This can be done rather quick, we all have seen how fast the changes on Lux, Xin and so on have been applied.

From what it sounds so far, I would guess that they want to strengthen her lategame, by adjusting her R (I guess the tank stats)
and adjust her E to have a little more use or something... everythings possible there.