Community: "Buff Fiora" / Riot: "Sorry, too busy!"

First Riot Post
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Xyes

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poko View Post
Her passive scales improperly - its like a rejuvenate bead.
Lunge damage is not worth noting after lv 3 since no one levels it.
W shield isn't effective vs a good number of tops - rumble, pantheon, zed, ad casters and bruisers. Speaking of bruisers she is not a bruiser herself and without an escape she is highly gankable.
Ult - while not suppose to be op is should be un stoppable like a zonya but many abilities stop her ult like Morg ult or if the target zonyas.

And over all no team utility so the only role I can really see her in is ADC bot kill lane.

I really want to see a Fiora Thresh lane. Hit a T q into F lunge e -Chase with lunge 2 - or retreat with thresh lantern (prevents enemy from harassing as you walk back)
My friend and I Fiora + Thresh sometimes. It works out pretty good, but I can't see her anywhere else.

My friend sometimes likes to jungle with her but it isn't that great unless the team picks champs with good CC.


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SilvertonguedDvl

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

May I suggest maxing Lunge first if you're not against someone who wants to fight straight out every time?

It does a hysterical amount of damage and if you time it properly you can get a lunge -> autoattack into a second lunge -> autoattack, maxing your passive and often scaring your opponents into running away, especially if you have your block up. Then you simply back off while they refuse to hit and continue farming.


Incidentally, while she's not good as a solo ADC she is quite capable of acting as a secondary threat in the vein of Jax and that sort of thing. She's also got the burst damage/survivability to play as an assassin if you're decent with timing her blocks/ult.


I'm not saying she couldn't use a nudge in the right direction/a buff here and there, but... if you're having trouble making her work you should try adapting your playstyle. She's not a bruiser, she's a carry. She scales extremely well with damage/crit% items. Exploit that.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by imweasel09 View Post
I meant that if 2 people are of equal skill level fiora is going to get her head kicked in. It's not a matter of looking at it differently. She has no build, no skill order that makes her worth picking over a different champion. The closest thing she she can do to being useful is go mid to try and destroy squishy AP mids but at that point you may as well pick Kha or Zed and have someone who stays relevant.
In that part Fiora is not too bad. Fiora actually wins a lot of top lanes if she is left alone top or not counter picked. Pretty similar to Darius, but she scales way better with offensive stats and snowballs harder.
She loses when she gets counter picked or falls behind early cause of ganks, zoning or an very aggressive early laner, and then she has no way to come back.

The problem is the melee ADC concept. Why are ranged ADC normally played with a support? Cause they are so easy to gank in a 1v1 most of the time (Ashe, Varus, Sivir, ...) and lose in a 1v1 once the bruiser can get to them and burst them (lvl 6) with the base dmg.
But it is needed, or else they would be stupid strong and very easy to snowball with. So they rely on items. Same with melee ADC. Now send someone that relies on items and is supposed to have a bad early game top lane. Someone that is pretty squishy and deals most of their dmg through skills that also need AD to be strong enough.

You can't buff these champs. And I say that as an old top lane melee ADC player. I loved all of them but I saw the flaws in their design in that lane.
If Riot wants to make them good, they have to put them together with the support and replace the ranged ADC or put them into the jungle (solo queue mostly) just like Yi.
Trynda is a small exception top.


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Battletick

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Pie View Post
But....she isnt from Freljord so why even look at her.
They can fix that.


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Morello

Lead Designer

04-23-2013
1 of 3 Riot Posts

No, the answer is "we can't just buff an ADC that is melee because they're binary in their success/failure; either too strong or UP."

Fixing these characters, including Fiora, is something we're working on, but is longer-term than a numbers-fix.


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Tammerlein

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Her w should reflect either the damage listed in the tooltip, or the opponents aa damage if it exceeds the listed damage. That way it is more useful against ad's but not useless towards mages.


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SilverHellion

Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
No, the answer is "we can't just buff an ADC that is melee because they're binary in their success/failure; either too strong or UP."

Fixing these characters, including Fiora, is something we're working on, but is longer-term than a numbers-fix.
Nerf-bat Suck Master

It really is true though and was a huge problem with Yi in low levels and Tryn in all levels.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

04-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
No, the answer is "we can't just buff an ADC that is melee because they're binary in their success/failure; either too strong or UP."

Fixing these characters, including Fiora, is something we're working on, but is longer-term than a numbers-fix.
i like this more tbh, cause it's true

most melee carries that get buffed even indirectly just get nerfed hard afterwards. need something else.


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Morello

Lead Designer

04-23-2013
2 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverHellion View Post
Nerf-bat Suck Master

It really is true though and was a huge problem with Yi in low levels and Tryn in all levels.
Exactly - we don't want to just buff them so we have to tear them down again. I think a fix to Riposte is just cool and a win, but it won't do much for why ADC's that are melee are not balanceable at the moment. Xypherous has been messing with this a bit.

Unfortunately, the Riposte changes we want to do are actually technically difficult and have been hard to prioritize over other important things.


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Chun Li

Senior Member

04-23-2013

So what happened to the buff on her W that stopped on-hit effects?