an idea for shyvana

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olridey

Senior Member

04-19-2013

tganks to anyone who understood why i was asking for an ap ratio on the w and wrote something asking for it since i dont think my gobblede**** post will be takn seriously


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Bump N Grind

Senior Member

04-19-2013

One of the reasons AP ratios on Shyvana are good is because she has further options for item building. 3/4 of Syv's kit is magic damage. Items like Liandry's Torment and Abyssal Scepter would do wonders for her W as well as all the AoE damage that comes with her ultimate. Shyv also lacks decent sticking power and being able to better use Rylai's to give W an AoE slow and her E a long range slow would make chasing easier.


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Oberic

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Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Oh, another thing. Since she does 2 kinds of damage right now, it makes defending against her more difficult.
Which is why I still think Sivir's Boomerang Blade should do magic damage. >.>


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olridey

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump N Grind View Post
One of the reasons AP ratios on Shyvana are good is because she has further options for item building. 3/4 of Syv's kit is magic damage. Items like Liandry's Torment and Abyssal Scepter would do wonders for her W as well as all the AoE damage that comes with her ultimate. Shyv also lacks decent sticking power and being able to better use Rylai's to give W an AoE slow and her E a long range slow would make chasing easier.
yes to this


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Rowanoake

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bus Driver View Post
Not trying to be rude, but who are you to say shyvanna is a non ap champ? What do you think sion is?
to be fair, it's not always immediately clear what's a "non" AD or AP champ, especially in cases where it's possible to go one way or the other. the popular meta (tanky top, AP mid, ADC/Support bot) basically draws very strict lines about what's acceptable in what role and why. so when people start messing around with it, it can seem "wrong" simply because it's not familiar. but roles are fluid and change from season to season and ever between tournaments.


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Bump N Grind

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oberic View Post
Which is why I still think Sivir's Boomerang Blade should do magic damage. >.>
But Sivir invests in Armor Penetration. Bruisers build mostly tanky and deal mixed damage so that one form of resistance doesn't shut down their damage output.


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ArlanKels

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
Oh, another thing. Since she does 2 kinds of damage right now, it makes defending against her more difficult.
That adds to the building clarity. As soon as you start making champions have two forms of damage a player looks at them and goes "How do I defend against this champion? I don't know! What do I do?!"

That creates an unhappy and frustrated player.


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olridey

Senior Member

04-19-2013

remember griftix all i want is an ap ratio on her w its not like it would cause shyv to need weeks of reworking


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JayFoe

Member

04-19-2013

I think the theory behind more AP ratios on Shyvana stems from the itemization changes from Season 2 to Season 3. Many of Shyvana's core S2 items were changed, weakened, or are no longer available. Shyvana can no longer rely on Heart of Gold and jungle speed clears to make tank-worthy levels of income, and the S3 focus on penetration as a valued offense stat has made characters with split damage (like Shyvana) behind the curve as they can't itemize to penetrate armor and magic resist.

Giving Shyvana AP ratios on more abilities opens up additional itemization options, which (in theory) helps give her more viable play options.

I'm not entirely in favor of this change, as the current itemization trends seem to greatly benefit single-type champions over hybrid champions. Since stacking armor and resist is less popular than simply stacking health and since penetration is now more valuable, doing two types of damage is no longer a benefit ("great, Garen is stacking pure armor but I'll still hurt him thanks to all this magic damage") and is now mostly a hindrance ("great, Garen has nearly 4,000 HP and I can waste money to do effective damage with either AD or AP but not both"). With that in mind, I suspect any changes to give Shyvana more AP ratios would essentially require that she eventually be redesigned as a manaless AP tank (similar to Zac), as she'll simply make up for lacking AD options with AP options.

In a vacuum, more AP options on Shyvana is better than nothing, it would be nice to see her played again (she's rare at higher levels of play and non-existent in tournaments), but I don't think its the right fix unless there are other changes to itemization to make hybrids in general more viable in S3. Alternatively, Shyvana could be designed to be too strong but held back by no useful itemization, but I think that design is part of what made early S3 such a hard change (AD bruisers suddenly were much scarier with items they actually wanted to build).


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ArlanKels

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remuko View Post
@griftrix

I'm no expert but here is a guess I have. Some people like a champ yeah? Lots of people may like a champs voice, personality, lore, looks, ect, but not like the playstyle. Like say idk Miss Fortune. I love MF. But I'm terrible at ADC and even when I play it and do well (rarely) I don't really have much fun. Now if I build mage fortune (spellfisting!) suddenly I can play her mid as a mage and have tons of fun with a champ who everything except the being an ADC part makes her one of my fav champs in the entire league.

Another example, AD Sona or even AP Sona. She's my literal fav champ in the league but supporting can be so dull...

but yeah that's my perspective on things. (yes i realize the ad sona thing kinda goes against me hating adc)
AP MF was a thing for a bit, she fell off after repeated AP-based nerfs. You can build her with a little AP now but mostly you don't do anywhere near as much damage as raw AD.

I've tried raw AP MF and it is insanely powerful in the first ten levels, then drops off so hard it makes me whimper.