an idea for shyvana

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Rockman

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
Well, actually Griftix,

AP Shyvanna does quite a bit of damage.

Her E has a ratio and that damage can be increased by basic attacks.

Also more than half her damage is magic.

So, so, so, its not as bad as you think!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gryphon48

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
See OP? Shyv is not meant to be AP, and you want to "fix" her by changing her playstyle. That is wrong. She needs improvements to her current design, which is one of an AD bruiser jungler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VandaI Twitch View Post
If AP Shyvana wasn't as bad as we think, she'd be actually used and doing work. But she isn't.
I like the way you think. :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gentleman Twitch

Senior Member

04-19-2013

If AP Shyvana wasn't as bad as we think, she'd be actually used and doing work. But she isn't.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vacus

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!

AP Yi vs AD Yi.


They're basically two different champions with entirely different play patterns, power routines, and so on. The ability to play non-AP champions as AP basically creates an entirely new champion in the League, a new champion who is too similar to an existing champion to ever actually be created.

In other words, if you want to get the aesthetics of Master Yi with the play pattern of AP Yi, AP Yi is the only way it will ever happen. The same would be true of AP Shyvana; there will never be a half-dragon melee mage, with an autoattacks-buff-abilities passive, whose abilities get empowered during a transformation ultimate, because that would be way too similar to Shyvana. If someone wants to play that champion, AP Shyvana would be their only option. The only real difference is 'mage' vs 'bruiser', which have different damage curves (the graph of damage dealt over time), different power curves (overall strength vs game time), and so on.


(Note that I don't actually want to play AP Shyvana. I'd just like her to get fixed for real. But I understand the desire.)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

N0OBPWNr

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
Some of the fun is simply trying out a new build that no one has really went too deep into or a more unpopular build that no is using but still works. Its the satisfaction of winning with a "troll" build, too, I suppose


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Prince Kassad

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
Because she uses fire. Fire is an energy-based, elemental form of damage. Fire screams "magic!" All other fire champions have their fiery abilities scale with AP. Why is Burnout different? Video games have trained me to think of fire as not being the same as claws/swords/arrows in terms of the type of damage it deals. Video games have also trained me to think of fire and dragons being associated with magic.

I guess wanting Shyvana to be playable as AP bruiser or hybrid is about fulfilling player fantasy. (And also about consistency; why does her fire scale with attack damage if Annie and Brand's fire scales with ability power?)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheXthDoctor

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
This begs the question: Why do champions that don't have a reason for AP scaling in their mechanics (i.e. Shyvana) have that scaling in the first place? The scaling is the attraction you're asking about, and, frankly, it's a noob trap.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Clockmaker

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
shyvanna has 2 AP ratios, 1 AD ratio, and then one AA reset.

also, her burnout deals magic damage... along with 2 other of her abilities... and there's no item in the game that gives AD+magic pen.

her E improves her sustained damage quite a bit, but it's magic damage.

it's just flat out hard to build bruiser shyvanna effectively with penetration. Her scaling is all over the board, and focusing on one isn't optimal, not even two is optimal since you also need to get tanky, and full tank shyvanna doesn't really do enough damage to be a threat since she has practically no CC.

ADC builds GA, gets both armor/MR, and now shyvanna can't even counterbuild that since the majority of her damage is magic mixed in with physical damaging autos. build armor pen? over half your kit doesn't synergize with it. build magic pen? extremely difficult to get magic pen without getting a large junk of AP.

edit: i honestly love playing shyvana, and I plan on getting her frost skin when that gets released. I just find it so difficult to build like an AD bruiser while making her kit synergize well. Her kit itself doesn't even synergize. Her E shreds armor, and only her Q does physical damage, and then that armor shred doesn't benefit the AA damage enhance on the second part of her E.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Gryphon48

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheXthDoctor View Post
This begs the question: Why do champions that don't have a reason for AP scaling in their mechanics (i.e. Shyvana) have that scaling in the first place? The scaling is the attraction you're asking about, and, frankly, it's a noob trap.
Because giving Shyv AD ratios instead of AP ratios would make her abilities too strong.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KrakShoT

Senior Member

04-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griftrix View Post
I am intrigued by people who want to play non AP champions as AP. I don't understand the attraction. If you are someone who thinks this way, can you explain why you think some champions should be able to be played AP or AD, and why this increases your fun? To me it's sort of like saying that you want to build Mundo as an assassin, but there's no mechanics or items available to make it possible, and I don't understand the want.

Thanks!
Better question: why does Riot give AP ratios to champions they don't intend to have played AP?