Morello, let's talk AP Ezreal

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Everyone's been saying buff AP EZ by making AP farm capable. Akali has no easy farm capability and is viable; is there a niche buff that can be done that would make him more Akali like?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eledhan

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
It's not if only AP Ezreal existed - but the fact that he still would need to remain balanced and satisfying as an AD complicates this a lot more. The request, knowingly or not, is to nerf AD Ezreal out and bring AP Ezreal in - that is something I wouldn't be willing to do.
Then could we please get a more..."viable" AD Ezreal? Currently, maxing W or E feels awful, and his ult feels underwhelming without high damage or utility...

Also, I seem to be hearing you (and other designers) talking about champions these days as one-dimensional in terms of damage type. This SEEMS to be supported by your actions as a company (nerfing AP ratios on traditionally AD champs, nerfing hybrid items/builds, nerfing/reworking hybrid champs). I think Tryndamere, Ezreal, and Akali are the most recent examples. And Jax seems to be another that comes to mind who was "tweaked" within the last year or so.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ArlanKels

Senior Member

04-16-2013

I've noticed champions who once could hybridize are steadily getting dropped away from that capacity.

I'm looking at you, Miss Fortune.


Is this because it forces extra amount of time in balancing, testing and experimenting? It leads more room for potentialy big glaring imbalances to pop up? It degrades the ease in which players know what to build on the champion?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Morello

Lead Designer

04-16-2013
16 of 16 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eledhan View Post
Then could we please get a more..."viable" AD Ezreal? Currently, maxing W or E feels awful, and his ult feels underwhelming without high damage or utility...
Agreed on these skills not feeling great, especially W. This is something I want to look at generally for Ezreal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Auryiel

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed on these skills not feeling great, especially W. This is something I want to look at generally for Ezreal.
Honest question : Will you try not to nerf AP Ezreal yet again by doing something nice for AD Ez or... will you not care?

Seriously, be honest :\


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aerothal

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed on these skills not feeling great, especially W. This is something I want to look at generally for Ezreal.
looking forward to this!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sessamo

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlanKels View Post
I've noticed champions who once could hybridize are steadily getting dropped away from that capacity.

I'm looking at you, Miss Fortune.


Is this because it forces extra amount of time in balancing, testing and experimenting? It leads more room for potentialy big glaring imbalances to pop up? It degrades the ease in which players know what to build on the champion?
I think a lot of the changes are because too much kit hybridization leads to a really muddled kit. MF losing most of her magic damage was a huge boost to her viability as a carry, for example, because it let her ult retain it's power into mid-late.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Thryale

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Okay morello, then let me ask you this: What in ezreal's kit makes him an ad carry? Outside of his passive, I see no clear cut reason why ezreal is considered an ad carry. Kit or otherwise.

If we are to look at his base and scaling ad, lux has ez beat in both departments, and she's an ap mage. Is it ez's ad ratios on his ult and q? is it how he relies on skill shots with short cd?

Honestly, I really don't see what part of ez's kit or stats that makes him such a good adc. I think the main reason ez is valued as an adc is because of his passive and how safe he is with a built in low cd flash.


The buffs ap ezreal needs, aren't that major, stuff like reverting the width nerf on his w and maybe give him a useful passive, and I think ap ezreal would become very viable. I've been playing ap ez recently with very good success as is. ap ez is not weak by any means, I think all he needs is a little QoL and a little love in the area of his passive.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eledhan

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed on these skills not feeling great, especially W. This is something I want to look at generally for Ezreal.
TL / DR - Is Riot taking a serious look / seriously considering shifting League of Legends into a more "defined" Champion -damage-type direction like Riven/Vlad? OR...is Riot okay with hybrids and AP vs. AD kits/builds?

Glad to hear that you guys are interested in making Ezreal work as a more "committed" champion, because I absolutely love him as a champion (got PFE day 1). I'd love to not feel "useless" or "weak" in lane as AD, and not so underpowered as AP, and not so gold-starved as hybrid...but I realize that trying to balance hybridized champions is nearly impossible in your current environment.

As something of an indie game dev myself, I fully understand that could be super challenging, which brings up other concerns at a more comprehensive level.

I realize Riot is probably not ready to talk about the inevitable "this champion is a physical damage dealer, there is no magic damage dealing build you could possibly create with this champion and remain competitive" tendency that an Ezreal tweak would indicate.

However...

Is there any way you could at least hint at whether Riot is looking into a more direct approach to champion creation/tweaking? Take Riven and Vlad as an example...both pure physical/magical respectively, both resource-less...their stuff is fairly easy to mess with because you don't have to tweak AP ratios on Riven or AD ratios on vlad. (all other issues not-withstanding, of course).

But, throw in a Sion, Ezreal, Tristana, Tryndamere, Miss Fortune (before the tweak to her ult), Akali, and I'm sure others I just can't think of...and you get into messy balance issues. Heck, even Udyr and Varus suffer from this kind of thing. As does Kog-Maw. I'm sure the list is longer than we have time for...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Splinterheart

Senior Member

04-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Agreed on these skills not feeling great, especially W. This is something I want to look at generally for Ezreal.
Any ETA as to when you might have something sorted for that? The W being the biggest problem >_< Never before have I felt that my points are wasted in a skill. The rest of the kit seems fine to me, but who knows? :P I'll leave that up to the balance team.