I just realized why Trundle needed a lore change.

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4death4

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04-05-2013

Trundle is also too simple to play, IMO. He is probly getting more complex mechanics to better fit in with the rest of the new champs coming out. Face it, he's kind of a boring champ as is. Strong early and mid-game, but so limited to what he can really do, outside ganks and jungle.


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ThermoFusion

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Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4death4 View Post
Trundle is also too simple to play, IMO. He is probly getting more complex mechanics to better fit in with the rest of the new champs coming out. Face it, he's kind of a boring champ as is. Strong early and mid-game, but so limited to what he can really do, outside ganks and jungle.
Read the annoucement threads. They are not changing his mechanics, they only tweaked his abilities. This thread is about the massive changes to his theme and lore.


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Nagoh Shan

Junior Member

04-05-2013

I made a thread in the Champions feedback thread on the rework issue, and didn't see this one here. My thought is, why not just make new versions of a champion instead of doing a complete rework?

Keep Trundle the Cursed Troll, patch him if he's underperforming like his current fans want, and introduce Trundle the Frost Troll King to progress his lore and theme. Same with any rework. Why to you have to waste all the time already invested in a champion, and risk pissing off people who don't want to see a rework, just some balance tweaks, when your own naming structure allows you to easily just make a new version to put the champion where you'd like it to be theme-wise?

Just a thought to try and balance the "Don't kill my champ" thought with the "Need to progress the lore" camp.


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GoodLuckTrying

Junior Member

04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by Kyrrion View Post
His story was already complete.

Trundle could never really have that option other than "I'm just here to help broski". There might be some other champions that suffer from this same thing, but not to the same degree as Trundle in my opinion.
I heartfully agree with you there. Trundle's arc was over. What was left was the Necromancer, and after reaching the spot his arc is on the old lore, seeking for some sort of vengeance/answers from said Necromancer who may be dead seems pointless and forced.

I honestly love the new Trundle. I even saved IP up to buy it for its release. His new look might as well make people play him more, who knows. As for me, the only Trundles I see are vs. AI. Hard for me to accept that people "love" him, yet don't use him even in Blind Pick games.

On another hand. IronStylus, when will Parrot be confirmed as a champion ?


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ThermoFusion

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04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by GoodLuckTrying View Post
I heartfully agree with you there. Trundle's arc was over. What was left was the Necromancer, and after reaching the spot his arc is on the old lore, seeking for some sort of vengeance/answers from said Necromancer who may be dead seems pointless and forced.

I honestly love the new Trundle. I even saved IP up to buy it for its release. His new look might as well make people play him more, who knows. As for me, the only Trundles I see are vs. AI. Hard for me to accept that people "love" him, yet don't use him even in Blind Pick games.

On another hand. IronStylus, when will Parrot be confirmed as a champion ?
The troll was still cursed and the necromancer was still at large. Story not over. The writers are in control of how interesting the necromancer is. for example how about the necromancer was actually the Ice Witch, perfect easy tie in. See my earlier post in this thread for my write up on that idea.


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AnonTwo

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04-05-2013

Here are my issues i can list about trundle:

1. Why trundle? There's over a hundred champions in this game. Many who's lore is still open ended. Yeah trundle's story couldn't go far (i could argue he COULD go to frejord if he just took over a tribe there, give he went '**** you' to his own tribe) but it was a GOOD story.

It had a guy who kept trying to please his tribe and utterly failing, despite doing things that should make him a hero. It had a guy who eventually found out his curse was a blessing, and decided that ultimately he could keep it since his tribe treated him badly even after 'saving them'. He's a league joiner not for politics or power, but just because he's lonely (he's not after a cure anymore)

What about Viktor and Jayce's story? What about more short stories about Veigar? (i wanna see him use a rubber chicken to take over bandle city), hows about more gossip rumors and short snips like Annie/Amumu and Rumble's mech? What about the fact Kassadin's still fighting Malzahar outside the league? The ongoing battle between Demacia and Noxus? Wth is Riven doing?\\

You have so many other stories to go on...why trundle? Opportunity or not, why was it an opportunity to begin with?

2. it's a complete retcon, nothing is actually salvageable from the old trundle aside from his kit (not even kit thematics though)
-His lore is changed, COMPLETELY
-His look is changed, COMPLETELY
-He doesn't laugh like trundle. In fact his laugh is just mundane now. Where's the jumping and smacking the ground? The some 5-6 second laugh? He's just gonna chuckle now? a TROLL is just gonna chuckle now?
-His soul feels taken out, I could take a change of look, i could take some changes in lore. But even his personality isn't the same. He went from a "trollish" troll (which is brilliant given he's the perfect champ for internet trolls) to a typical WoW troll, bulkish and cunning. (Zul'jin anyone?).

3. Why did it even have to be trundle? They're so different. You could literally make him a new troll entirely. Oh, trundle's tribe was the only tribe in lore? Who cares? Make it a tribe noone noticed, it's frejord, who would know? The troll king didn't even have to be trundle at all, he has enough defining characteristics to coexist.

What's worse? I think he'd be accepted with open arms if he was his own character. Sure, you might get a complaint here or there, but not on the same level as just making him trundle.

4. And finally....are you really going to develop his lore?. Is it really going to be something thats interesting? Is it just going to be a two parter where trundle backstabs lissandra and that's it? Cause...old trundle's story is also a two parter. Lore, and judgement. Is anything meaningful going to be done with this retcon?. He's not even a main character in this lore, rather than a supporting character, so the room for development seems pretty damn low.

I'm just saying...I don't really see the point.


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Tortferngatr

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
That's cool. I can see that happening.
Xin kills enemy Jarvan: "Sorry, my prince."
Master Yi kills enemy Wukong: "You still have much to learn, young one."
Wukong kills Master Yi: "I'm not the master now, but it's nice I can toe with the best."
Wukong KSes an allied Master Yi (Master Yi dealt >75% of the damage but Wukong got the kill): "HAHA, GET DUNK--sorry, master. "
Shyvana kills enemy Jarvan [Jarvan line]: "Heh, you got me. (See you--tonight?)"
Jarvan kills enemy Shyvana in human form [Shyvana line]: "You're good. (Care to try--again--tonight?)"
Jarvan kills enemy Shyvana in dragon form [Shyvana line]: "Excellent performance..."

Anivia kills Valor: "Sorry, young one, but I am not...interested."
Ziggs kills Thresh: "That ain't the first wall I've blown up today!"
Syndra kills Xerath or vice versa: The winner says "Power overwhelming!"
Vayne kills Syndra: "Consider listening to your elders."
Fizz kills Master Yi (especially if the shark killed him): "Too slow!"
Syndra kills Irelia: "And they said I lacked balance...."
Urgot kills Sion: "Stick it somewhere else, jolly oaf."
Sion kills Urgot: "Lighten up already, will you?"

Lissandra kills LeBlanc: "I've been doing your job for centuries--no surprise that you're not even close."

Garen, Sion, Urgot, Darius, or Jayce kills Sivir: "DO YOU EVEN LIFT?"
Kassadin kills Sivir: "DO YOU EVEN RIFT?"
Viktor kills Sivir: "DO YOU EVEN AUGMENT YOUR PHYSICAL STRENGTH?"

Brand and Lissandra need an entire suite of lines where they verbally snipe each other when they're in each other's vision, kill each other, assist each other, KS each other, or are allies and are going after Anivia or Teemo together.

Skarner needs capture point lines for Dominion.


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Kyrrion

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThermoFusion View Post
The troll was still cursed and the necromancer was still at large. Story not over. The writers are in control of how interesting the necromancer is. for example how about the necromancer was actually the Ice Witch, perfect easy tie in. See my earlier post in this thread for my write up on that idea.
The curse happened generations ago. Odds are something already happened to the necromancer and even if Trundle wanted "revenge", he is still being kept alive by the curse. Killing the necromancer wouldn't mean a damn thing, especially since Trundle since is accustomed to his life and pretty much at peace with the curse.


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Faptain Teemo

Member

04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by YoshioPeePee View Post
i might be in the minority here but i would rather not see every single champion get involved in the whole faction thing

not complaining about trundle, but is this seriously going to continue until everyone is closely linked to 1 of them?

i don't really want to see demacian knight taric, shadow isles scourge fiddles, bildgewater brawler gragas or freljord monolith malphite

the number of outlier champions without a link to a faction or without a rivalry with another champion is pretty high but having at least a few who are like this is not a bad thing, imo it makes the world a bit bigger and less coincidental if there are champions that aren't neccessarily tied to other champions
That's the whole point of the Institute of War...it's to settle beef between warring nations. Sometimes factions get 3rd party to help them by choice or force (Kayle, Nocturne, Brand etc), but most champions represent a faction otherwise.

Updated lore helps to give champions purpose.


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Hoofster

Senior Member

04-05-2013

I've come to accept that trundles had a personality change along with his plastic surgery and there's nothing I can do about it.

But, you guys mentioned one-offs. I recently mad a thread about this. The lore team has done a good job of eliminating the possibility of more then one of a nonhuman race other then yordles. Skarners people? All asleep until the world is a better place. Alisters people? Dead, he's the only one left. Fizz? All missing out of no where. I want more trolls, trundle can't be the only strong one worthy of representing his people at the league can he? More bears, more of w/e rengar is, more elementals, etc.

Some one-offs make sense, Rammus and Maokai for example, they're connected by their creation and there's not likely to be more like them.

Also I imagine that some of your targets for these lore reworks will be outworld champs like Kayle and Malphite (it's been mentioned that Anivia already had a change). Realize that if you rewrite them to be from Runeterra, your not just changing their lore but the lore of the league, pulling champions from other realms to use as gladiators basically for nations to basically freelance for them. For the love of god don't start hacking away at Renekton and Nasus' lore to make them fit into Runeterra better.