I just realized why Trundle needed a lore change.

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Xarkanadushak

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04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by Chibodee Crocket View Post
Thank god maybe we can get some quality lore.
pfft this i riot we are talking about, incoming fiddlesticks remake where he is a carbon copy of the scarecrow from the wizard of oz because fk them maintaining any originality when it comes to their ip


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Xitemo

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04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by Ramund Hin Unge View Post
First of all Traditional Trundle is a beef cake who had his leprosy downsized to a skin rash, he also no longer run on 3 limbs and he is much larger.

Of course we are mad, we were asked what we thought needed to be done to aid Trundle, we asked for smother animations and a small number tweak. We were ignored and Trundle is being deleted, we have every right to be mad when IronStylus comes in here with blood still dripping from his hands stating nobody as ignored yet he does not mourn the loss of what he just killed.

Bold part is why you lose any credibility, I'm sick of you and the other IronStylus sycophants on this forum, the man could take a dump, take a picture of it then state it is X champions rework art and people like you will upvote anything he says or does on the topic while downvoting anyone voicing their opposition.

Take your browned nose and leave please.
God you're so full of yourself. I'm not here to defend Ironstylus. I'm here to defend Riot's decision on the rework of Trundle. I support it. I like it. This isn't about brown-nosing an artist. This is about a change that occurred that everyone is clearly upset about but don't want to even really give a chance.

How about this shocker: You don't work for Riot.

If you don't like the direction they're going in I'm sorry to hear that, but it's THEIR creative property. Attacking people who happen to be part of the company and like the change isn't going to suddenly reverse this event.

When I said "Yes I like Ironstylus" I was saying: "Yes I'm a fan, but that's not why I support this rework."

They are two unrelated factors in my opinion. You're upset and throwing tantrums like children using phrases like 'Blood on their hands'.I know, how about Riot just never comes back to the forums! Yeah! Total silence! They can just do whatever they want and never interact with the fans of their game directly!

So I'll say this one more time, and I'll make it simple without any clarification so you angry, whining, and all around tiresome complainers can understand it:

Riot tried to do something good for the game. This is how they did it. Sorry you don't like it, but verbally attacking the REAL people who tried to do something positive over a DIGITAL entity is both petty and uncalled for.

If you people could have simply stay civil, maybe this could have been a real conversation. A debate. A discussion. Of course not though. You're upset and clearly don't know how to express yourself in any other way than by basically flinging text-based feces.

Grow. Up.

P.S.:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwalda View Post
Read his JoJ, Trundle was never a leader.
Old Trundle was way darker.
Nothing actually supports him being smart aside simply saying "he is smart". The tales he made up didn't actually further his goal because he seized power by strength, and the stories would undermine his position, because everyone knows the power he wields is not his own.
He wasn't 'darker'. He was more morose yes, worn down by the frustrations of his life yes. That doesn't make him a 'dark' character though. As for his power, I'd say its his. He found the club and now owns it. The power of the club is his. The witch could have killed him but he did the intelligent thing and made a deal with her. Now not only does he have the leadership of the tribes like he wanted. he also has a powerful ally in the Ice Witch. Personally that seems like a pretty damn smart move to me.


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Xarkanadushak

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04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
Grow. Up.
mirrored back at you, as your whole post pretty much read pointless indignation about a subject you frankly seem to care about not all


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ltachi

Senior Member

04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
So actually, no. Ahri is a seductress and.. uh.. eats livers. I am 100% about context in relation to character. Ahri might actually get LESS clothed if I was to fully embrace that, but she has too much fun Korean influence in her costume to warrant that.

Eve though? If Eve potentially got a rework? Oh man.. boobs til tuesday..
I notice she seems to lose a lot whenever she is picked in the LCS and I stopped maining her ever since her last nerfs. I would love to see a different attempt at balancing her or reworking her.


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Reybag

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Like I said in many previous threads, this isn't about assigning specific factions for every champion, it's creating relationships. Relationships. That's the key here.

Diana and Leona aren't factionally aligned, but they are regionally aligned with eathother, Pantheon and any other Mt Targon champions. Factions, geographical locations, etc, are all mechanisms to drive engagement with other characters. Sometimes existing champions lack those mechanisms to further development.

There needs to be some anchor binding them to the world or else there is no reason for them to affect it. Those anchors can be a family tie, hailing from a particular region, belonging to a religion, anything that allows an action they take to potentially change the world.
"Diana and Leona aren't factionally aligned, but they are regionally aligned with eathother"

so leona its ok because after her riot made a champion that its related to her.
the same could have been done for trundle,theres the necromancer who made trundle curse ( who has been ask for in some topics)

or could have been another troll ( which riot did but to replace trundle model which seems a waste of resources,it could have been a new champ and could have been related to trundle)

or could have been any other new champion ( only a little imagination is need to relate him with trundle)


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Xitemo

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04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarkanadushak View Post
mirrored back at you, as your whole post pretty much read pointless indignation about a subject you frankly seem to care about not all
Now you're making an assumption. I do care or I wouldn't be responding. When something in your life happens that is negative you can either gripe about it and let it ruin your mood, or you can find the positive aspects about it.

When I first saw the Trundle rework yes I was trepidatious, but as I read the new lore and saw how it brought Trundle into the thick of things it made me excited. Sure the idea of a troll bearing the curse of his whole tribe was cool and interesting, but ultimately I find myself enjoying the new lore more.

You say they 'deleted' Trundle. I disagree. Yes fine he's now beefier and colder (in more ways than one) but that doesn't mean he doesn't still have depth. That doesn't mean he's not still funny and clever. It doesn't mean he cares any less for his kin than the 'old' Trundle! Trundle at his /core/ was a character who shouldered a burden for his kind. Before it was a curse, now it's trying to stay a step ahead of those who would lead to the fall of his people. His backstory changed yes but he's still /Trundle/.

Will I miss the 'old' Trundle? Yes. Yes I will. I however would rather have them change his history and give him a real chance to shine lorewise than to lay forgotten in the storyline bin with the likes of Nautilus and Fiddlesticks.

I say grow up because being upset about this and attacking others with this vile diatribe is -childish-. A child will kick and scream when they don't get what they want. An adult may be upset, but understands there are things that we might not enjoy until we actually give it a chance. At that point if they still don't like it then they simply don't do it, or in this case play this game.

Until you've put as much time and effort into making this game enjoyable as the employees at Riot have (All of them by the way, they're a team and they work hard at what they do), then all you're doing is being disrespectful and hateful to people who are not trying to anything but what they feel is positive for the game.


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Racalas

Senior Member

04-05-2013

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Originally Posted by JunkRamen View Post
I think people are more upset about the character being scrapped, not so much the backstory.
I am not upset about trundle changes. I think they are awesome.


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Kuwalda

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
God you're so full of yourself. I'm not here to defend Ironstylus. I'm here to defend Riot's decision on the rework of Trundle. I support it. I like it. This isn't about brown-nosing an artist. This is about a change that occurred that everyone is clearly upset about but don't want to even really give a chance.
What chance? This rework is their chance and they blew it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
How about this shocker: You don't work for Riot.

If you don't like the direction they're going in I'm sorry to hear that, but it's THEIR creative property. Attacking people who happen to be part of the company and like the change isn't going to suddenly reverse this event.
We are the customers, we use the end product, not Riot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
When I said "Yes I like Ironstylus" I was saying: "Yes I'm a fan, but that's not why I support this rework."

They are two unrelated factors in my opinion. You're upset and throwing tantrums like children using phrases like 'Blood on their hands'.I know, how about Riot just never comes back to the forums! Yeah! Total silence! They can just do whatever they want and never interact with the fans of their game directly!
Which would completely contradict the very foundations the company was built on, making them lose any credibility they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
So I'll say this one more time, and I'll make it simple without any clarification so you angry, whining, and all around tiresome complainers can understand it:

Riot tried to do something good for the game. This is how they did it. Sorry you don't like it, but verbally attacking the REAL people who tried to do something positive over a DIGITAL entity is both petty and uncalled for.
I don't see a video game being any different from an athlete failing to meet expectations or a beloved niche artist turning to dubstep for more fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
If you people could have simply stay civil, maybe this could have been a real conversation. A debate. A discussion. Of course not though. You're upset and clearly don't know how to express yourself in any other way than by basically flinging text-based feces.

Grow. Up.
Ah, the old "civil" point pro-Riot people are making. I'll just keep it simple and say everything negative said about them is automatically labelled non-constructive. If you'd actually read posts in the threads you'd see the points being made by anti-rework posters are a lot better constructed and thought-out, but obviously anyone not agreeing with Riot can't have a discussion or a debate, because a "discussion" in these forums only means complimenting how good they have been doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitemo View Post
P.S.:

He wasn't 'darker'. He was more morose yes, worn down by the frustrations of his life yes. That doesn't make him a 'dark' character though. As for his power, I'd say its his. He found the club and now owns it. The power of the club is his. The witch could have killed him but he did the intelligent thing and made a deal with her. Now not only does he have the leadership of the tribes like he wanted. he also has a powerful ally in the Ice Witch. Personally that seems like a pretty damn smart move to me.
I personally don't like the word "dark" anyway, I only kept it in because you used it.

I'm not sure where you're getting at. He only offered his allegiance because he was about to die, he was forced to do it in order to survive. The only leap of intelligent he made was that instead of saying "I'll do whatever you want", he offered his tribe as soldiers.
He obtained leadership, because he was lucky enough to find an artifact that didn't make him outsmart the previous leader, but overpower him in physical combat.
The Ice Witch is his boss, not an ally. You could say that any land Trundle will conquer for his tribe will actually belong to her.


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Birdy51

Senior Member

04-05-2013

I am going to be candid. I am ok with the Troll King. All things considered his character is pretty solid. He has good standing for his region and he has a solid backstory.

However, Trundle is not the Troll King. The Troll King is a vaguely intelligent brute, good at telling stories. Trundle was an individual on a deeper level, with a complex set of emotions bubbling beneath the surface. Trundle will always be the runt who took on the brunt of his tribe's curse, only to be reviled due to the very curse that made him. That's what makes me sad about this relaunch. As a community, we've lost a character in replacement of another. The Troll King is simply not who Trundle is(was).

I also disagree a bit on the idea that his story was complete. Afterall, his tribe was still dying. What would happen to Trundle if his tribe did die out due to his innaction? What would keep him keep him company? Would he feel guilt? Would his morality become distorted? Would he become mad with cruelty and bitteness? Sadly, that question will never be answered.

I suppose the whole point I am trying to make is that it's really not what I expected from this rework. The whole change is a very large break in continuity. Perhaps this does leave me a bit bitter. But hey, that's what happens when you get attatched to something. Game designers, creative designers, players... We share a common passion for this game and it's characters. In the same way that you have asked for respect, we also wanted that in return for this remake. We have put a higher value on him as a character than perhaps what was realized.

I don't know... I want to try adressing this issue further when I have some time in the Lore Forum to make a post.


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DreamsOfGrandeur

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04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
In the end we want relationships. They may be heavily entwined, or just a thread of connection. Either way, there needs to be substance that ties this world together cohesively, and ensures that when a champion claps their hands, there is a potential for another to feel a hint of that breeze from a thousand miles away.
Here's the thing...

Why can't you write about those relationships forming AFTER they join the league?
Why do they have to retroactively change Trundle's existing lore?

Answer: Absolutely no reason at all.

Summarizing his current lore and adding in stuff about him becoming the Ice Troll King would have been feasible and no where near as painful for the community. It would have made him a much deeper character too.



You're doing something that feels unnatural - You're changing the past.

Take a hint from Zilean and don't ---- with history anymore please.


Focus on the future. If you write about the future without changing the past, that gives the champions more depth.