I just realized why Trundle needed a lore change.

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Nine Ravens

Senior Member

04-05-2013

I can understand the desire to be able to tell stories with each champion, but I fail to see what about Trundle's old lore prevented him from having such interactions.The threads from his backstory might have been resolved, but nothing was preventing new desires and motivations being added to his character, or new interactions arising from relationships he forged with those he met at the League.

Tweak his old backstory to better integrate him and his tribe into the world, but as it stands now the new Trundle bears no resemblance to the one we know.


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Mayobe

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffmeisterZ View Post
'KILL EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S FUN WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!'
Lulu?


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Rivini

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffmeisterZ View Post
Vlad is in the league because he is an unrepentant serial killer addicted to murder. He's there to kill people because, as he personally stated, he HAS to.

I somewhat fear for my personal sanity as I say this, but I just love that there's someone there with no hidden agenda, no supreme ultimate quest they are working to complete, no world takeover or destruction or anything, just 'KILL EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT'S FUN WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!'
Shaco is the same. Although he's not addicted to murder, he finds killing people hilarious.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

04-05-2013
17 of 32 Riot Posts

Something just came to my brain, so.. story time!

When I was first pursuing Diana, I had some little sketches which started to inform some momentum, but there was honestly no solid direction to go story wise. At the time, the drawings of her had her in armor, but with dual weapons, almost like Akali. No idea where I was going with that design, but whatever.

I wrote this ridiculously elaborate story which I shared with Runaan and Volty. It centered around Diana having been sold into slavery and working at a Zaun strip mine. She would toil day in and day out. Being small as a child she ended up going deeper into the mine than any adults. She grew to know the mine, to know the secret places of the camp.

The warden, or head of the mining company, or something like that, came out regularly to observe the goings-on at the camp. She would see him parade around with his children, rich, fat, and superior looking. She obviously hated him for being the one in control of the mine, and the ostentatious life he lived.

So, one day, Diana's sneaking around one of the secret areas in the mine's camp and tumbles through a wall, or some such thing, and finds a prisoner, like herself, who's been there his entire life. The man is bitter, but like her, since he was small, he knows his way around and he's basically built himself up a little home deep in the forgotten mess of the mine's camp. He can't escape, but he has his hovel, and his bitterness to keep him company.

He happens to be a moon worshipper, and every night, don't ya know, he prays to the moon about getting revenge upon the warden. He sees in Diana a young person who has the chance that he never will now that he's old. She could escape the mine and kill the warden! GASP!

Oh, by the way, the mine digs up magical moonstone..

So wouldn't you know, turns out the old dude has crafted some mighty fine weapons out of this moonstone, and they're unbreakable essentially because as a true acolyte of the moon he has the power to imbue weapons with such awesome. Apparently the moon has also caused him to go all crazy-like.

Stuff gets very Count of Monte Cristo here and she trains with him, also bows to the moon, learns how to use the weapons, and eventually they formulate a plan to have her escape and hunt down the warden.

Some stuff goes down, explosions, whatever, she escapes and.. oh man.. gets to the warden and his family. Epic scene happens where she's got one of the warden's kids and is ready to kill him but then BOOM! Leona shows up! Because.. uh.. she's the defender of life or something? She's super good and.. protects people, right? I mean.. that's what she says in her VO.

Leona stops this madness and is like.. "HEY YOU GIT OUTTA HEER" and Diana is all "OH NO YOU DI-IN'T I'MMA GETCHOO METAL SUN LAYDEE WE R NAO ENIMEEEZ."

So, Diana forms some hatred for Leona, has moonblades, obviously some **** is about to go down. Scene.

In conclusion, and that's a terrible story by the way, that puts Diana nowhere really in the universe, or any real good reason to want to have it out with Leona aside from some very superficial reasons. It also pretty much just makes Leona into some weird traveling Superman. Maybe the story is compelling in a way. Yeah, It's taking the revenge aspect, she's from a terrible situation, she's been enslaved, it's harrowing to a certain extent because she's experienced some horrible stuff, you root for her possibly. However, it has no real meaning in the greater affairs of the world.

I presented this story and it fell flat, to all of us. We all thought oh, ok, decently written (it was ok honestly), and it was a neat story, but it wasn't substantial in terms of relationships with anything really. At that time I was shying away from having too much of a relationship between Diana and Leona at their core because that seemed like a crutch to have one solely exist to foil the other.

We struggled for a while. We thought, well, maybe the Shadow Isles. Maybe something really out there. Maybe risen from the dead. But then another creative designer chimed in and did what we were afraid to do. He suggested we go full on and embrace a heavily entwined relationship. Diana was actually from the Solari proper. She was an acolyte. She was of the same people as Leona.

This actually opened up more opportunities than the original story did, simply because it wasn't fringe. Fringe initially felt like the best way to go because it felt like Diana could "stand on her own". That she had some really nuanced backstory that got you attached to her. Poor girl, she’s been through so much, yeah! Screw that warden! And screw Leona for getting in the way! But it turned out having her part of Leona’s people created so many more opportunities for conflict and eventual possible resolution.

It grounded Diana as a contrast and foil, and since we were leveraging an existing faction and locale, it helped dictate many core pillars in her. She was now part of an orthodoxy which she could rebel against. She was another female paladin-type which we could create contrasts and parallels in visual design. She fit into a larger scheme that not only created her story, but deepened the story of Leona, the Solari and Mount Targon.

That story now has the potential to go somewhere really epic. That would not have been the case if the original fringe approach had been taken. If she was just another girl from somewhere far far away that happened into her circumstances. No. She’s the heretic. An action she takes will ripple through the fabric of Valoran now. She won’t just go after some guy’s family for petty revenge, she will arrive back on Targon, her awakening eclipsing the sun, being the vessel of a power that can sunder earth and blot out the light. She is not a petulant brat who’s out to make a point, she is the nihilist who has no concern for the ignorant who follow what she deems as a false light. She’s not Diana, Girl Who Got Sold Into Slavery and is Now Out For a Reckoning, she’s Diana, Scorn of the Moon, deliverer of the heretical truth, who will go toe-to-toe with The Radiant Dawn, protector of the faith.

In the end we want relationships. They may be heavily entwined, or just a thread of connection. Either way, there needs to be substance that ties this world together cohesively, and ensures that when a champion claps their hands, there is a potential for another to feel a hint of that breeze from a thousand miles away.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Are there diamonds involved?

Blue diamonds can tend to be electrically conductive, you know.


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A bouncy Furret

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Those suggestions are completely in a vacuum. Similarly, as much as I do enjoy Graves' little interaction with Nocturne, having him have an interaction with Twisted Fate is where we really need to go. Not superficial interactions.
I'd very much like to call you out here on this.

I think champions should be very dynamic with each other. Graves showing off a bit of his ego by blinding Nocturne is a good example of this. All of these champions, especially if they are from similar regions, should have some kind of interaction. Kind of like another game, another moba, one made by a monlith.

You say these suggestions are in a vacuum, but that's what you're turning the world into, a bunch of separated vacuums.

When Elise kills Teemo she should hiss "That's gotta sting" it's a reward for killing Teemo, it's spiteful, just like Elise.

By NOT having interactions like that you are creating vacuums. The champions in the league have to be well known, especially if these other champions are seeing them often.


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Mytos Kunn

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
No need to quote the whole bloody thing.
Still better than almost all of the new lore created from Syndra onwards.


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

04-05-2013

But seeking to destroy everything that's been established by creating this relationships is counterintuitive.

This isn't World of Warcraft. There is no need to do what you're doing. The only thing you gain by changing old lore is getting people to start disliking what you're doing. Guess what, I like Anivia the Elemental from another world seeking to harmonize runeterra, not just a generic 'Ice spirit' from Freljord.

I bet, BET, Malphite will be 'updated' this way. 100%. Cant' have beings from different Dimensions. Ib4 Malphite becomes a rock disturbed by ziggs explosive and because 2deep4u and reasons he becomes Malphite.

It may sound bitter, but you aren't doing a service to old champions Iron. The opposite. If you want your new champions to have these connections, fine by me, as long as it introduces new champions. Doing it to old champions? It helps nobody.


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

04-05-2013
18 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by A bouncy Furret View Post
I think champions should be very dynamic with each other. Graves showing off a bit of his ego by blinding Nocturne is a good example of this. All of these champions, especially if they are from similar regions, should have some kind of interaction. Kind of like another game, another moba, one made by a monlith.

...

When Elise kills Teemo she should hiss "That's gotta sting" it's a reward for killing Teemo, it's spiteful, just like Elise.
That's cool. I can see that happening.


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

04-05-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Those suggestions are completely in a vacuum. Similarly, as much as I do enjoy Graves' little interaction with Nocturne, having him have an interaction with Twisted Fate is where we really need to go. Not superficial interactions.
NOOOOOOO.
That means I may end having to remove my little easter eggs with my fan champion concept.
Well, at least with Shen, Syndra, and Zed.