Journey Into The Freljord III: The Troll King

First Riot Post
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Muranodo

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophirr View Post
Ya know, not all Trundle fans hate his new remake. I'm an avid trundle player (he's one of my most played ranked champions), yet I love the new Trundle. He is now going to actually be part of the world of Runeterra, instead of some random troll that could one day get deleted and no one would be able to tell, since he has no connection to anything.
He has an amazing story and theme, being at the same time one of the most pitiful and one of the strongest characters in Runeterra, but it suffers from Isolation from everything else.
He fulfills a pretty awesome anti-tank/anti-bruiser role, but that role has been slightly taken over by penetration changes and the advent of league of warmogs/gap cosers, so I definitely see some justification in changing his kit around a little bit.
As for his looks/feel, I find that to be a matter of preference. But I do know that when I play him, I don't feel like a diseased creature who's spreading said pestilence around to the rest of the world, I feel like this epic troll hero who's bashing his club against the best the world has to offer, while being extremely resilient and hard to kill. I think being the Troll King helps to get that across better.

So before you start harassing Riot about how they destroyed this "epitome of perfection" that is Trundle, take a second and realize that this isn't a case of Trundle Players vs Riot. This is you, and a group of people with the same opinions vs Riot and a group of Trundle players with different opinions.
You've stated that you never really liked Trundle besides his kit and the tragedy of his lore based off your comments. Or rather, I am inferring that since that's the only positive comments about Trundle that you've checked off (not really his individual personality, appearance, different from other champions). I explained before that's a perfectly legitimate stance because not all League of Legends players are cut from the same cloth.

I also never said all Trundle players hate the remake. I have as I have throughout the thread: expressed my discontent, mentioned the earlier promise (why Ironstylus responded to me once), and spoke on my general feel for gross, niche champions / monsters; I gave that with supportive evidence. They are removing what serves a smaller market of players. As such, they are not in conflict with a whole; they are still drastically changing a champion to the displeasure of a few. It also conflicts with Grumpy Monkey's earlier words. We can continue to squabble over whether the upset Trundle base is being too vocal on the matter; it's quite possible to deliver the fantasy you're wanting in another champion. There is no reason Trundle, specifically, had to be readjusted for this scenario. That's basic knowledge that both sides can admit to.

Secondly, I have never called him an epitome of perfection. I've called him niche and limited to a smaller player base. Riot promised diversity; I am seeing homogenization for an attempt to salvage him for a select few at the cost of a fair number of prior fans. The fact that my comments do not fall into simple downvotes shows me there's enough to balance it out in a positive manner. As with Karma, they are also willing to listen on the matter since there are legitimate fans. And I'm also pretty certain there are more devoted Trundle fans as the SSoTP matter popped up quite a bit over the last year alone versus legitimate Karma talk.

Getting back to the point: You're basically telling me to not voice my dissatisfaction because this Trundle suits your view. This Trundle does nothing for me as I bought into him for the original fantasy. You highly stress the kit's value for yourself (invoking the meta, for instance). Trundle being different on multiple facets is what attracted me; his kit came to me as secondary after his appearance, personality, and lore. If I wanted a buffer, fiercer jungler there are a variety of options. This Trundle is a shell of his former self; I intend fully to express that to Riot. I'm sorry you feel that I'm "harassing" Riot; I'm tried to remain quite civil while solely calling them out on their failure on this matter. If not, they wouldn't have bothered to reply to me in the first place.

I just find their handling of this manner to be completely slippery and arbitrary. As this problem could have been avoided with a simple visual update and exploring further troll themes via another champion. They created the drama themselves by doing this in secret and knowing it would incite a fan base. They said they learned their lessons from Karma about what fans value; they release Trundle who resembles pretty much none of his former self. There will be unrest. That is all.


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Slarg232

Senior Member

03-30-2013

I for one, welcome the Trundle Remake.


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MrSmileyy

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muranodo View Post
You've stated that you never really liked Trundle besides his kit and the tragedy of his lore based off your comments. Or rather, I am inferring that since that's the only positive comments about Trundle that you've checked off (not really his individual personality, appearance, different from other champions). I explained before that's a perfectly legitimate stance because not all League of Legends players are cut from the same cloth.

I also never said all Trundle players hate the remake. I have as I have throughout the thread: expressed my discontent, mentioned the earlier promise (why Ironstylus responded to me once), and spoke on my general feel for gross, niche champions / monsters; I gave that with supportive evidence. They are removing what serves a smaller market of players. As such, they are not in conflict with a whole; they are still drastically changing a champion to the displeasure of a few. It also conflicts with Grumpy Monkey's earlier words. We can continue to squabble over whether the upset Trundle base is being too vocal on the matter; it's quite possible to deliver the fantasy you're wanting in another champion. There is no reason Trundle, specifically, had to be readjusted for this scenario. That's basic knowledge that both sides can admit to.

Secondly, I have never called him an epitome of perfection. I've called him niche and limited to a smaller player base. Riot promised diversity; I am seeing homogenization for an attempt to salvage him for a select few at the cost of a fair number of prior fans. The fact that my comments do not fall into simple downvotes shows me there's enough to balance it out in a positive manner. As with Karma, they are also willing to listen on the matter since there are legitimate fans and there were more for Trundle than Karma who suffered on a few fronts.

Getting back to the point: You're basically telling me to not voice my dissatisfaction because this Trundle suits your view. This Trundle does nothing for me as I bought into him for the original fantasy. You highly stress the kit's value for yourself (invoking the meta, for instance). Trundle being different on multiple facets is what attracted me; his kit came to me as secondary after his appearance, personality, and lore. If I wanted a buffer, fiercer jungler there are a variety of options. This Trundle is a shell of his former self; I intend fully to express that to Riot. I'm sorry you feel that I'm "harassing" Riot; I'm tried to remain quite civil while solely calling them out on their failure on this matter. If not, they wouldn't have bothered to reply to me in the first place.

I just find their handling of this manner to be completely slippery and arbitrary. As this problem could have been avoided with a simple visual update and exploring further troll themes via another champion. They created the drama themselves by doing this in secret and knowing it would incite a fan base. They said they learned their lessons from Karma about what fans value; they release Trundle who resembles pretty much none of his former self. There will be unrest. That is all.
Again, my issue here is with how they have spoken about other champion remakes of niche champions. They "evolved" Karma, same character, but progressed, not all of them like it, but they tried to and her traditional skin is close to what she used to have.

They stated they are unlikely to do much with heimers visual as his fans like him

Then trundle, is essentially completely removed and has a new character shoved into his place. Why? Why are we different from the others in that they try to service their small fanbases but just toss us to the side? That traditional skin means nothing in its current form either, its a darkspear troll and that's it, looks absolutely nothing like our current trundle. Nothing has been offered to the Trundle fans unlike the others and I want to know why.

With such a drastic overhaul, visually, characteristically, lore, and likely mechanics (don't know yet) why not just make a new character. If your going to remove and redo every single aspect there is no point in calling it a remake, its a replacement.


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Muranodo

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmileyy View Post
Again, my issue here is with how they have spoken about other champion remakes of niche champions. They "evolved" Karma, same character, but progressed, not all of them like it, but they tried to and her traditional skin is close to what she used to have.

They stated they are unlikely to do much with heimers visual as his fans like him

Then trundle, is essentially completely removed and has a new character shoved into his place. Why? Why are we different from the others in that they try to service their small fanbases but just toss us to the side? That traditional skin means nothing in its current form either, its a darkspear troll and that's it, looks absolutely nothing like our current trundle. Nothing has been offered to the Trundle fans unlike the others and I want to know why.

With such a drastic overhaul, visually, characteristically, lore, and likely mechanics (don't know yet) why not just make a new character. If your going to remove and redo every single aspect there is no point in calling it a remake, its a replacement.
Basically how it feels. The "deletion" effect coming off last's year talk on Urgot, Trundle, and Kog'Maw as "mistakes." The reason I feel so betrayed is because I joined in and said---please keep Urgot the same after his comment about if he had his way now Battlecast Urgot would be the default. And Morello said---I just would have done that. It's too late to do that now. We'll do some niche champs; it won't be a lot. However, don't expect the likes of Urgot and them again. Then Grumpy Monkey again reassured they weren't going to do anything drastic to him. He'd stay the same. Then ... here we are with Trundle. I don't, again, understand the difference.


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Lex Domino

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Oh my beautiful Trundle. He moved up from fun to play to sexy and fun to play. Dem abs.

Move over, Garen. Swimsuit Trundle pls.


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MrSmileyy

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muranodo View Post
Basically how it feels. The "deletion" effect coming off last's year talk on Urgot, Trundle, and Kog'Maw as "mistakes." The reason I feel so betrayed is because I joined in and said---please keep Urgot the same. And Morello said---I just would have done that. It's too late to do that now. We'll do some niche champs; it won't be a lot. However, don't expect the likes of Urgot and them again. Then Grumpy Monkey again reassured they weren't going to do anything drastic to him. He'd stay the same. Then ... here we are with Trundle. I don't, again, understand the difference.
uh...kogmaw? Isn't he considered by most cute in a disturbing way? Koggy gets love for his looks all the time, and is played a lot too how on earth was that a mistake.


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Muranodo

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmileyy View Post
uh...kogmaw? Isn't he considered by most cute in a disturbing way? Koggy gets love for his looks all the time, and is played a lot too how on earth was that a mistake.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...23829#24623829

Short version is he was a mistake because he was still gross. He could have been cooler according to Morello. This is why you see the results of Zyra and Elise as they are versus anything less... unsafe.


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FunAE

Junior Member

03-30-2013

I play trundle a lot and it's great he's getting some attention.
The rework is looking awesome keep up the good work.


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Yago Xiten

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Huh. I always thought Trundle stood out amongst fantasy trolls. They always had regeneration, but one that kept regenerating and melting? It was like Prometheus's curse! Really cool I actually thought.

But, oh, ok...I guess we can make him a generic uninteresting ugly Ice ogre or something. I mean sure they're supposedly keeping his abilities mostly the same, but they also supposedly kept Karma basically the same with her relaunch...

Anyways, he'll basically be an ogre. Because he's ugly, sure, and he'll keep his regeneration abilities in game, but it'll just kind of be there rather than feeling like he's mean to be a regenerating troll.

I have a feeling this is going to go over horribly.

EDIT: Ice thing would be cool as a skin. But as his classic? Yeah...Not so much.


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Oaklen

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Amazing rework i love it!