Champion Spotlight: Karma, the Enlightened One

First Riot Post
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BeastBox

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Munra View Post
Ok Riot, where's my Traditional Karma Free Skin? i wasted my ip 2 weeks ago and now i need to buy it? OK NICE.....
While this shouldn't be true, I can't help but snicker if 'karma' bit you here. The traditional skin is supposed to be for the fans who already owned her, not Johnny-come-lately bandwagon hoppers who just want free stuff. XD


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BeastBox

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtelierTM View Post
ok anyone who says that karma wasnt a good support really didnt know how to play her as support. i never play support i am always dmg and that didnt change with karma, she was a great support as full AP it's just when people in the group didnt know how she is played is when she was lackluster. you are supposed to play her as if you were mid just without taking much CS. now she is the same just without a usefull heal to play support. the shield at lvl 18 with 500+ AP will place an almost 600 shield but in early game it is mediocre at best her burst with the same is good, but again early game she lacks due to her "un mantra'd" Q. the abils need a small buff, either in dmg or a mana reduction, or give her a way to be refunded mana on kill with it, like Annie, but maybe just a % of it, not the whole thing.
I've almost never seen a good support played full AP, especially in higher-level play (it's also pretty funny that Karma's old heal could easily steal CS from the carry). I grab spare CS when I can but it isn't guarenteed I'll get anything. If the champion isn't viable at 0 CS then they are not a "good support", and you can't play full AP with all your money spent on wards and aura items.


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Kziki

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiHZ View Post
I main Karma. I have for a very long time. Those saying that 'No one plays Karma': That's because A) Good support players aren't that common and B) she's not really a pickup and play champ. You had to get used to her playstyle.

I'm really unhappy with these changes. When people are crying for good support champs, why would you get rid of one of the best ones?
No. You don't have to get used to her playstyle, your team has to. Which itself is the problem. Karma used to be totally reliant on her teammates knowing exactly how her abilities worked in order for them to be effective. You don't need to understand Soraka, Taric, Sona, or any of the other supports in order for them to be useful, but Karma required proper positioning and utilization of her mechanics from her entire team.

Combine that utter reliance on her mechanics being common knowledge (which they weren't) with her further reliance on gold and items for the stats she needed (and she needed everything - CDR, AP, mana, resists, health, etc) that wasn't compatible with the 0 CS meta..

Did they damage some of her support capacity? Yes. In doing so they also moved the burden of knowledge from her teammates to herself, which is where it should be. You can claim she was the best support, but that was only ever true in a 5-man premade scenario, where her teammates knew exactly when and how she was going to cast spells, and if she also managed to get fed to hell and back to get the necessary items.


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Euralia

Junior Member

03-29-2013

well cya karma looks like im not using u as my support champ anymore thx riot >.> why change her when u could have just made a totally new champ


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NiHZ

Junior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
No. You don't have to get used to her playstyle, your team has to. Which itself is the problem. Karma used to be totally reliant on her teammates knowing exactly how her abilities worked in order for them to be effective. You don't need to understand Soraka, Taric, Sona, or any of the other supports in order for them to be useful, but Karma required proper positioning and utilization of her mechanics from her entire team.

Combine that utter reliance on her mechanics being common knowledge (which they weren't) with her further reliance on gold and items for the stats she needed (and she needed everything - CDR, AP, mana, resists, health, etc) that wasn't compatible with the 0 CS meta..

Did they damage some of her support capacity? Yes. In doing so they also moved the burden of knowledge from her teammates to herself, which is where it should be. You can claim she was the best support, but that was only ever true in a 5-man premade scenario, where her teammates knew exactly when and how she was going to cast spells, and if she also managed to get fed to hell and back to get the necessary items.
First of all, tell me what exactly is wrong with expecting a team to be able to cooperate with you as their support in a team-based game? Secondly, I never had that hard of a time with solo-queue as Karma as long as I had a decent laning partner in the beginning. Even then, I could still do alright.


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AtelierTM

Junior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeastBox View Post
I've almost never seen a good support played full AP, especially in higher-level play (it's also pretty funny that Karma's old heal could easily steal CS from the carry). I grab spare CS when I can but it isn't guarenteed I'll get anything. If the champion isn't viable at 0 CS then they are not a "good support", and you can't play full AP with all your money spent on wards and aura items.
her "old heal" was just that A HEAL. yes it did hit minions and champs, but for one, the fact that it did dmg AND heal is what was great about it. heal your adc and hurt the enemy at the same time. that was a great thing. and as for the cs stealing from it, that is a small price to pay for the kill, or a save. 2) karma didnt NEED to get the aura items just because of her abils.her W was both a slow and a speed boost. her E was an amazing shield and her Q was a godsend in teamfights. you didnt NEED to have any of those aura items with her as long as you played her AP. she would keep you alive and kill the enemy. yes soraka's heal's would be nice but AP support karma would wreck in teamfights just because of how vesatile she was. again she didnt need CS but if she got it, it just made your team that much stronger, and THAT is why she was a great support. the ONLY reason she was underplayed is because the team never knew how to utilize her and some people just didnt understand her and HOW TO PLAY HER. and as for the wards thing, it's not ONLY the support who should be getting them, EVERYONE should be.


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Kziki

Senior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiHZ View Post
First of all, tell me what exactly is wrong with expecting a team to be able to cooperate with you as their support in a team-based game? Secondly, I never had that hard of a time with solo-queue as Karma as long as I had a decent laning partner in the beginning. Even then, I could still do alright.
Nobody played Karma. It's provable that she was literally the least popular champion in the entire game. Hell, I'm pretty sure Evelynn was played more just for trolling purposes before her remake (which people complained about too). So you have a champion that nobody ever sees used, and expect everybody to know how every one of her abilities works, plus a comprehension of her totally unique resource system.

Without her team positioning perfectly, Heavenly Wave's healing cost was wasted frequently. Without someone knowing how Soul Shield's aoe burst worked, they would never get into positions for it to be exploited properly. People have a difficult enough time knowing how to use Thresh's lantern, but every single one of Karma's abilities demanded total and complete comprehension from every person on her team. No other support has that burden of knowledge shoved onto her allies - Soraka, Janna, Taric, Sona.. none of them need anyone to know how any of their mechanics work in order for their teams to benefit, but Karma required it. If you can't remember how frustrating it was having your team group up only to break apart just as you spent a mantra empowering Heavenly Wave to heal them, missing all but one or two people, you didn't play Karma enough and shouldn't be talking about her.

Not to mention her item needs. Every other support can make do with some GP10 items and lots of wards. Karma couldn't. She needed CDR for Mantras to be up frequently enough to be of use. She needed AP for her spells to scale well. She needed mana and regen since she ran dry very quickly. She needed health and resistances because she had relatively short ranges and poor escapes. In short, she needed every stat, and that required a lot of gold. Fine for a top laner or AP mid, but then she's not being a support anymore, is she? And there are definitely better top and mid choices.

Karma was a poor choice of a support. She always has been. There has never been a meta where she really, really thrived in, or was even just acceptable in. There likely never will be, not for her old kit anyways. Supports already rely on their teammates disproportionately towards other game roles, to rely not only on them doing their jobs but to know yours in and out is just problematic. I'm a terrible ADC player, but the ADC doesn't need me, as a support, to know how they work just like I don't need them to know how Sona or Janna works, so long as we can cooperate in the lane. If I played Karma, that changes, and not in any sort of a good way.


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Hippalus

eCommerce Director

03-29-2013
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nddimension View Post
Riot is actually going back on giving out Traditional Karma to people who already own her? For real?
The skin is free to everyone who owned Karma before the rework. Play a game with Karma and you will be able to select the skin.


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jakeland21

Junior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlGFISH View Post
Wow now we have to pay for the traditional?
Not cool.
I bought her on release and had her ever since.
Im sad
I believe that they are selling the "classic" to those of us who did not buy karma originally, I'm sure you're getting the skin.

Side note, was nice to see support tactics explained for a short bit in this video, always good to go over the basics.


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jakeland21

Junior Member

03-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kziki View Post
...Without her team positioning perfectly, Heavenly Wave's healing cost was wasted frequently.
Agreed. Plus, it was usually a waste as you would have to be so grouped up that any ranged attack with an aoe effect hit most off (if not all) of your party.

Ex. Go for the heal, get gangplanked/ziggs ulted.