I've found useable build for udyr: someone should optimize it

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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

12-04-2009

I actually just played as a raping Udyr, but I was on a winning team anyway, so it's hard to extrapolate how it'd work in a neutral environment. I tried to jungle with him, but I found my team needing me to aid their lanes a lot so I was sub-optimally present in the jungle

my end build was:
<U>

  • Nashor's Tooth
  • Rod of Ages
  • Trinity Force
  • Aegis of the Legon
  • Atma's Impaler
  • Phantom Dancer
</U>
I started out with madred's razors and ninja tabi for jungling but sold them for my last 2 items.

Anyhow, I'm SURE that's not an ideal build for him, but I was throwing stuff together to see what was working.

He can jungle fairly well as long as you start turtle and then level turtle and pheonix. Get bear once you are ready to help teammates.

After coming out with golem buff and nashor's tooth, you an keep switching between turtle and pheonix for extreme mitigation and great damage. Use bear to initiate and to stop people from escaping.

Get tiger stance because you have to eventually and use it pretty much only to more quickly DPS things down by alternating between it and pheonix when you do't need the healing from turtle.

It's an all over the place build, but as a melee, he needs damage mitigation and, as a non caster, at least some physical damage is a must.

Now as for the explanation of the other items: AP and attack speed. Pheonix and Turtle both scale with AP. Not particularly well, mind you, but they are UBER spammable, which makes that nice. Attack speed causes pheonix's passive to proc more often.

Then spam turtle and bear to get away when you are in trouble



End result: A chewy hero with great DPS ability.

Essentially you are going to be spamming between 2 abilities to make sure you are ALWAYS under the influence of monkey's agility x2, one passive and 1 active (though, with CD redux, the actives can overlap for a brief time). At late levels, the mana cost barel even matters.

examples:
  • initiation - Bear + any other stance as long as you stun when you get there. Bear spamming gets you there faster anyhow
  • team fights - turtle + pheonix Turtle spam makes you VERY chewy and pheonix spam deals nice damge including splash damage by passive and aura damage on active. (throw in bear stuns ad lib)
  • run away - bear+turtle you'll run faster and mitigate damage
  • Tower maiming and ganks - Tiger and Pheonix (bear to initiate or hold during ganks)even though it's going to be a lower level in all probablility, tiger will help pheonix DPS something down quicker han any other stance
Biggest Problem: CC and focus fire

without being able to spam cast, he can't keep his damage output from pheonix or his damage mitigation from turtle up. Also, he loses his monkey's agility stacks (It only stacks, like 2 times, but it sucks to lose that attack speed and dodge).


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Max Pita

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Master Recruiter

12-05-2009

good combination, but udyr is free frag always, no chance againt the assassins champs.


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Neutronic

Junior Member

12-05-2009

I went Sheen / infinate edge / black cleaver and useing averance blades to farm them. was ok mid game but late game i was tearing though people with tiger activate. (granted i was able to farm being on a premade team) i only had 1 skill in pheonix for early game. used from levels 1-6 timing 3rd hit with a tiger activate for decent burst to get some early kills.


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Krrr8or

Member

12-05-2009

The build for udyr is to build him like you would playing your usual champ. Select him at the character selection screen then say "lol jk" in chat and switching to a good champion.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Pita View Post
good combination, but udyr is free frag always, no chance againt the assassins champs.
Iunno, this buld made him VERY chewy.

the game I played with him, we had felled centre inhibitor, but bottom was only pushed to inhib tower and top only to second tower.

so once we got baron buff (I tanked baron by switching between turtle and pheonix repeatedly, and actually gained HP at a quicker rate than I lost it), I ran into their base via centre, and started doing laps around their inhibitor switching between turtle and bear as fast as possible: it took them somewhere between a minute and a minute and a half before 3 of them including a pirate and an amumu could actually klill me: meanwhile my team pushed both lanes pretty much uncontested.


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Jack 0f Fools

Member

12-05-2009

Udyr should not be changed until a significant amount of theorycrafters/enthusiasts have actually applied a full, well thought out runebook to him.

Thus far no one has even BREATHED about what sort of rune setup to use with him on the forums. THIS IS AN EGREGIOUS OVERSIGHT. People are complaining about his "bad stats" and "low health"

I smell health and attack runes in your future!


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Diasero

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Recruiter

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack 0f Fools View Post
Udyr should not be changed until a significant amount of theorycrafters/enthusiasts have actually applied a full, well thought out runebook to him.

Thus far no one has even BREATHED about what sort of rune setup to use with him on the forums. THIS IS AN EGREGIOUS OVERSIGHT. People are complaining about his "bad stats" and "low health"

I smell health and attack runes in your future!
I don't think runes, should be mandatory to make him on par with regular heroes.

Why should we use our runebook to correct a design flaw.

OP: Ill try out this build, I liek the theory behind it, just the implementation is very inconsistent.


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Joru

Senior Member

12-05-2009

I don't get what the Rod of Ages is for. You can probably live without the mana, especially with Nashor's Tooth, Sheen, and the golem buff. The AP seems to scale pretty terribly; attack speed is better for Phoenix and actual defensive stats are better for survivability than relying on a meager boost to the turtle shield. And there are surely more all-around useful sources of health, like Warmog's or a Frozen Mallet (though getting both the latter and Trinity Force would probably be counterproductive).

Also, Udyr has the worst chasing/initiating potential out of every melee champion in the game except Alistar, and your end build has no boots? That's crazy.

You also seem to be using way more gold than you're ever likely to see, especially since finding ganks early is rough for Udyr, but it's hard for me to tell exactly how it'd develop over time without seeing it in action.

I can see how a more defensively-oriented build plus Atma's might suit him, at least against physical teams, but I still have my doubts.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joru View Post
I don't get what the Rod of Ages is for. You can probably live without the mana, especially with Nashor's Tooth, Sheen, and the golem buff. The AP seems to scale pretty terribly; attack speed is better for Phoenix and actual defensive stats are better for survivability than relying on a meager boost to the turtle shield. And there are surely more all-around useful sources of health, like Warmog's or a Frozen Mallet (though getting both the latter and Trinity Force would probably be counterproductive).

Also, Udyr has the worst chasing/initiating potential out of every melee champion in the game except Alistar, and your end build has no boots? That's crazy.

You also seem to be using way more gold than you're ever likely to see, especially since finding ganks early is rough for Udyr, but it's hard for me to tell exactly how it'd develop over time without seeing it in action.

I can see how a more defensively-oriented build plus Atma's might suit him, at least against physical teams, but I still have my doubts.
the AP scaling isn't great, but it adds up because the spells are so spammable.

the mana from rod is nice, but the health and AP are nicer

attack speed is nicer for pheonix, but AP scales with turtle AND pheonix
I wasn' killing enough things for warmogs to make sense byt the point I could afford it.

I sold boots at the end because of huge sums of money and put phantom dancer on him. He was fast enough with that and bear. He would likely still have boots though.

like I said, the 3K extra gold for phantom dancer was lucky... like icing on the cake.

I had enough health for atma's, but, yes, it would have been nice to have more health first.




like I said. Tweek it as desired.